Orange Line / 35W@94: Downtown to Crosstown Project

[MNdible]

My concern is that the paint on asphalt is going to reduce friction quite a bit, especially after a few coats have been applied. Anecdotally, the painted portions of crosswalks can be pretty slippery under wet/icy conditions.

[Apollo]

My concern is that the paint on asphalt is going to reduce friction quite a bit, especially after a few coats have been applied. Anecdotally, the painted portions of crosswalks can be pretty slippery under wet/icy conditions.

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the red paint mixed in with the concrete topping or I believe "powdered in" afterwards after pouring the slab, so it's not really painted on top of the concrete like sidewalks stripes are, but it's embedded in the concrete?

[HuskyGrad]

My concern is that the paint on asphalt is going to reduce friction quite a bit, especially after a few coats have been applied. Anecdotally, the painted portions of crosswalks can be pretty slippery under wet/icy conditions.

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the red paint mixed in with the concrete topping or I believe "powdered in" afterwards after pouring the slab, so it's not really painted on top of the concrete like sidewalks stripes are, but it's embedded in the concrete?

It can be applied multiple ways, in Portland they are painting lanes. In new construction they can dye the concrete.

[MNdible]

Yes, the new concrete put in as part of the Orange Line project has integrally colored concrete (that's really much more pink than red). However, all of the other applications I can think of locally are red paint applied to existing asphalt, which is what concerns me.

[HuskyGrad]

Yes, the new concrete put in as part of the Orange Line project has integrally colored concrete (that's really much more pink than red). However, all of the other applications I can think of locally are red paint applied to existing asphalt, which is what concerns me.

I'll chat with some of our bus drivers here. But, I haven't heard anything about reduced traction and of course it rains a lot here.

[Oreos&Milk]

Eww!... if they paint Marq / 2nd RED then were just MONTHS away from Nicollet Mall being painted High Quality-Luxury Red shaped brick!




Long as we create a moratorium on bringing RED PAINT to Nicollet Mall I'd welcome Marq / 2nd Ave with that red paint.

[DanPatchToget]

Is there ridership data on MVTA's Route 465? I don't want to assume all the midday buses run with a few people at most, but that seems to be the case every time I see them in Bloomington. Couldn't MVTA reallocate resources to a different route that should have better midday service while the low number of people traveling between Burnsville, Minneapolis, and the U midday can use the high frequency Orange Line with an easy transfer to the light rail or other bus routes in downtown? I'm sure there's enough demand for the peak hour and peak direction 465 that skips downtown going to/from the U, but midday and evening I'm not so sure.

[mattaudio]

That's a great idea. Too bad MVTA and Metro Transit have different stations. ReGiOnAl

[DanPatchToget]

Perhaps extend the 465 the short distance from Burnsville TS to Heart of the City Station. That way park & riders can choose HOTC for the Orange Line and if they return on the 465 during the afternoon rush hour they don't have to worry about being stuck at Burnsville TS.

[mattaudio]

Want to get between transit stations on opposite corners of the intersection? Good luck!

https://www.startribune.com/man-run-ove ... 600185591/

[Tiller]

Time for a deep bore tunnel under highway 13 between the two!!! This is the way.

[DanPatchToget]

I think they're going to make improvements to that intersection in the near future. I forget what exactly they were considering but I believe there were a couple interchange options and one at-grade option that would have a pedestrian bridge or tunnel.

[Mdcastle]

There's a couple of different options, but this is the one the city of Burnsville likes. It's hard to see, but there's a "pedestrian cloverleaf" in the northwest corner where to go from one transit station to another you go around the loop and then either over 13 along Nicollet or under Nicollet along 13.

[thespeedmccool]

Maybe I don't know what I'm talking about, but there just cannot be that much benefit to expensively grade-separating this intersection but not actually getting rid of the stoplight on 13.

What's the cost of this gonna be? $40 or $50 million to marginally improve the pedestrian experience along Nicollet? I say go full interchange or save the money.

[Tcmetro]

It moves all the backups to the connector ramp from Nicollet Ave and makes it much safer for pedestrians.

[thespeedmccool]

Just looked it up: $43 million for a marginally improved pedestrian experience and reducing the minor backups on Nicollet (but not the three-times-as-busy highway.)

For $43 million, this should just be a full interchange. I don't understand MNDOT's creativity here -- for $43 million, might as well go all the way.

[Mdcastle]

There's still as stoplight on 13, but you're removing all the through traffic on Nicollet as well as two of the four left turning movements from the intersection, so you can dramatically increase the green time allocation in a cycle for traffic on 13.

The two other designs:

A) Keep the entire intersection at-grade for motorists, expand 13 to six through lanes and expand Nicollet to add double lefts, and build a pedestrian overpass or underpass

B) Build a huge roundabout / land bridge type thing on Nicollet over 13. This would eliminate the signal on 13 entirely. Pedestrians would have to cross the roundabout legs.

[alexschief]

Orange Line passed over 1k weekday riders in May. Ridership has grown every month so far. While there's no avoiding the fact that it's a pretty low number overall, it's still a positive milestone. Still enormous opportunity for growth, especially given how almost none of the station areas for this line are developed in a transit-supportive way.

[Hero]

Do they have boarding numbers for the stations? I'm curious if Lake street is the lowest.

[Oreos&Milk]

There's a couple of different options, but this is the one the city of Burnsville likes. It's hard to see, but there's a "pedestrian cloverleaf" in the northwest corner where to go from one transit station to another you go around the loop and then either over 13 along Nicollet or under Nicollet along 13.

  eh... starting to look too complicated. Be nice if they could just lower 13 and then have a bridge at ground level for Nicollet Ave. Would be beautiful to not have to have cars exiting and entering from hwy 13. but I guess that's too much of a fantasy. Maybe even a mini "freeway cap" that would connect skateville to the heart of downtown and open up more land for development to a more urban friendly housing.