University of Minnesota - News & General Topics

[Cyclotron]

Eh - *hasn't been closed*.

[woofner]

I should clarify that I transferred to the Urban Studies program - maybe Paula Pentel could chime in about how selective that is. I had scribbled in Urban Studies and Landscape Architecture as possible majors on the app and a few months later I found myself at orientation in St Paul with a bunch of dudes who worked at golf courses. And that was the last time I set foot in St Paul.

Edit: and this all went down more than 10 years ago, not exactly the Pleistocene but at least paleolithic.

[Nick]

http://www.startribune.com/politics/sta ... 46771.html

U hires consultant to analyze administration, workforce

The University of Minnesota has hired an external firm to analyze its workforce and report back to the Legislature.

Sibson Consulting, based in New York, will study the "spans and layers" of the university's structure, drilling into how many administrators supervise how many employees. The university will pay then $48,000 for the work, which includes $8,000 for travel and other expenses, according to the contract.

Gotta say, I lol'd at the headline.

[FISHMANPET]

Anecdotally, I have to agree that the University wastes piles of money on bueracray. The original WSJ article brings up a case where processing a $12 parking reimbursement cost the University $50-$75, and hearing that doesn't surprise me at all.

[RailBaronYarr]

Anecdotally, I have to agree that the University wastes piles of money on bueracray. The original WSJ article brings up a case where processing a $12 parking reimbursement cost the University $50-$75, and hearing that doesn't surprise me at all.

How much do you think it costs to process an expense report at a publicly held company?? The value of the parking reimbursement is of little consequence. At my (very large) company, I still have to spend 20 minutes (min) to fill out an expense report, tape the receipts to a piece of paper, and submit it. An Accounting person then spends time reviewing it, logging it in to a system, and remitting it. Total labor time probably 1 hour for a single expense report (which is used for petty cash expenses and travel - no automated systems). Not to mention the computer system upkeep, printing costs, etc. I would wager the cost is very similar. It's very easy to point at government or higher ed organizations and assume they are inefficient by pulling anecdotal numbers like that. They cited some 100 marketing and communications people on staff and complained about it as a horribly high number. My company (with revenues of $2.1B, not too different than revenues/expenses at the U) has 150 marketing or communication folks working here. And we're motivated to be as profitable as possible!

On a larger note.. how can anyone say the bueracracy is the problem? The WSJ article cites the 10-yer span from 2002 to 2012. In that time, operating costs at the U have risen by 3.4%, accounting for inflation and number of students (yes, taking on 10.2% more students means higher costs). Keep in mind, during that time these "administrators" bumped 4 and 6 year graduation rates up a significant amount (6th highest gain in the country from 03 to 08), increased academic and research standing, reduced student-faculty ratios, and many other improvements.

The problem statement is: tuition at the U (particularly for in-state students) is very high and has risen at an astounding rate.

The cause of said problem statement is not administrative costs. The causes are: 1) Disinvestment from the state - in that same time (02-12) the state of MN has CUT funding (inflation adjusted) by 29%. This has been made up almost entirely by student tuition increases. And 2) a poor policy of raising in-state tuition and keeping the rise in non-resident tuition very low to attract a variety of students. I think it's important to have a mix, but this is a state-funded, land grant institution aimed at educating MN kids first. The gap between in and out-state resident tuition increases at the U is among the highest of nationwide 4-year public universities.

I don't doubt that there are things the U can continue to do to decrease administrative costs. I'm not saying they're perfect or shouldn't continue to change over time and take advantage of new technologies, processes, etc. But as far as tuition goes, the problem has been disinvestment from the public. The universities don't have the option of cutting students (despite higher costs, MORE people continue to want education). They don't have an option of cutting degree programs, stopping research, or stopping running dorms/student centers. They can't fire professors and consolidate classes to larger ones (well, not without severe backlash from legislators and the public). The money to continue running the school had to come from somewhere.

[NickP]

^^^ Very well said mate.

[gahwi003]

Agreed, very well said. But there still are layers within the University (Facilities Management in particular) that need to be cut.

[RailBaronYarr]

Agreed, very well said. But there still are layers within the University (Facilities Management in particular) that need to be cut.

What in particular about FM would be cut? Do you mean outsource managing all facilities? Is this a proven cost-saver? I would argue that the things they have outsourced may save headache for the U but come at a cost to those using it. Dining services contracted out is an example.. the cost per meal for the average dining plan is much higher than one could do by themselves buying groceries (and occasionally going out), and an individual doesn't leverage ridiculous buying power (volume) and would typically buy higher quality food than the dining service provides. (I'm not a UDS hater, I actually don't mind dining hall food and some of the special meals were quite good, just pointing out when I moved off campus my food bill was much lower and I wasn't eating Ramen).

I'm curious if you have some insight to some of the numbers inside the U.

[FISHMANPET]

I have a gripe with FM. When they did their big restructuring a few years ago (instead of having a custodian take care of everything in an area, they'd have a custodian do a single task for a much larger area, so instead of a custodian that vacuums and takes our trash out in our building, there's a trash custodian for two buildings and a vacuum custodian for two buildings) we didn't have anybody to clean our room for about a year. Thankfully the guy that emptied the trash outside my room took pity on us and would pop in every day and empty our trash. They also apparently took away their vacuums, and the vacuum teams were forced to use backpack vacuums that were apparently pretty bad.

Anyway.

I've only really worked at the University as a grown up so I don't have anything to compare it to. So even though I know a private company would have to do those same tasks, I guess it didn't really occur to me that they could also have a bloated bureaucracy.

But on the other hand, that doesn't make it right or optimal. And I'm guessing it costs the University more than it would most private enterprises, because of federal grant requirements (but I don't have any evidence to support that either way).

But I have seen cases where the University's employees have cost money by being terrible at their jobs. I've seen a purchasing person screw up an order so badly that fixing it cost more money in staff time than it would to just reorder the damn thing. In a private enterprise it might be possible to fire her, but it's basically impossible to fire something at the University.

Maybe I just hold out hope that the wonders of the free market have made private enterprise not terrible, but I suspect deep down that it's not true and in reality everything is terrible everywhere.

[gahwi003]

Dining services contracted out is an example.. the cost per meal for the average dining plan is much higher than one could do by themselves buying groceries
I'm curious if you have some insight to some of the numbers inside the U.

The price per meal would be higher if the work wasn't contracted out. Non contracted workers at the University are Union, and Union workers are NOT CHEAP (and some don't do anything at work since they can't get fired).

My connection within FM says there are plenty of 200K+, and even more 100K plus jobs that shouldn't be jobs in the first place, or the employees shouldn't receive 5/8 of their pay.

[gahwi003]

I have a gripe with FM. When they did their big restructuring a few years ago (instead of having a custodian take care of everything in an area, they'd have a custodian do a single task for a much larger area, so instead of a custodian that vacuums and takes our trash out in our building, there's a trash custodian for two buildings and a vacuum custodian for two buildings) we didn't have anybody to clean our room for about a year.

This is because a lot of the Union workers didn't do s*** while working (because they are union), and therefore a lot of the areas weren't cleaned on a regular basis. In order to fix this, teams were arranged, making the entire team responsible for an area, not just a single employee. In addition, the efficiency of cleaning increased (job specialization), reducing waste.

[FISHMANPET]

It's obvious you've got some pretty strong anti-union bias here. I've interacted with quite a few union FM employees, and they've all dedicated hard workers. The case where nobody was assigned to our room was a problem of administration, not the front line employees. In fact, two custodians (these don't do shit workers) volunteered themselves to empty our trash and clean our room. Carpenters, electricians, and pipe fitters have all been extremely skilled and efficient. More often than not I get the impression that if they ever were held back from performing at their best, it was because of paperwork and bureaucracy required by management, not because they're lazy union employees or some other worthless stereotype.

[RailBaronYarr]

It's obvious you've got some pretty strong anti-union bias here. I've interacted with quite a few union FM employees, and they've all dedicated hard workers. The case where nobody was assigned to our room was a problem of administration, not the front line employees. In fact, two custodians (these don't do shit workers) volunteered themselves to empty our trash and clean our room. Carpenters, electricians, and pipe fitters have all been extremely skilled and efficient. More often than not I get the impression that if they ever were held back from performing at their best, it was because of paperwork and bureaucracy required by management, not because they're lazy union employees or some other worthless stereotype.

A lot of times paperwork and beuracracy required by union workers to get stuff done is not the admin's fault, but the unions. At least in the industrial process facilities I've visited. The unions have strict rules as to who can touch what, when, at what time of day, and what level of training they have to have. I'm not complaining about unions here - just pointing out that some of the requirements on job duties were set by themselves to protect their work and ranks. Again, also in a completely different industry.

What area of the U do you work in?

[RailBaronYarr]

Dining services contracted out is an example.. the cost per meal for the average dining plan is much higher than one could do by themselves buying groceries
I'm curious if you have some insight to some of the numbers inside the U.

The price per meal would be higher if the work wasn't contracted out. Non contracted workers at the University are Union, and Union workers are NOT CHEAP (and some don't do anything at work since they can't get fired).

My connection within FM says there are plenty of 200K+, and even more 100K plus jobs that shouldn't be jobs in the first place, or the employees shouldn't receive 5/8 of their pay.

My point was comparing to the free market of food buying. But it sounds like what you're claiming is that given their options (unless you count not offering food in dorms as an option and letting the kids grocery shop and cook with hotplates that aren't allowed), the administration made a good choice regarding contracting out food services. I don't doubt that union worker's aren't cheap. I'm not a super strong union backer but in my 4 years at the U I never saw people (cleaners, cooks, etc) under-performing or slacking. I would also say that unions have done a better job keeping their wages tied more to the increase in productivity than the rest of us schleps have over the past 30 years, so there's that. But let's not get in to a political discussion.

This is because a lot of the Union workers didn't do s*** while working (because they are union), and therefore a lot of the areas weren't cleaned on a regular basis. In order to fix this, teams were arranged, making the entire team responsible for an area, not just a single employee. In addition, the efficiency of cleaning increased (job specialization), reducing waste.

Whether you're right or wrong, it sounds like you just made a case for the Facilities administration helping improve efficiency at the U by changing work practices.

I would say that most companies I know of (including the ones I've worked at, big and small) manage their own facilities maintenance folks. They may contract out for landscaping and snow removal, but everything else inside the building has been managed internally. And I can see where an organization as large as the U (land footprint and employees) would find it economical to vertically integrate services like landscaping (especially since they have educational programs in that department for internship experience and also need to offer work-study programs to kids).

I just haven't been convinced that, relative to a for-profit enterprise, the U is any worse with a dollar. I'm waiting for Kaler's task force to release their findings, in addition to that consultancy group on levels of management staff (and I do hope they compare to market best practices for reference.

[widin007]

As a student who works with FM, I make 10 and hour doing the exact same job full timers do who get paid at least twice what I do and get benefits. It is a bit wonky

[RailBaronYarr]

As a student who works with FM, I make 10 and hour doing the exact same job full timers do who get paid at least twice what I do and get benefits. It is a bit wonky

Just like as an engineering intern, I got paid 1/3 what an entry-level engineer would get (if you annualized my salary) and I did 95% the same as them.

Interns and co-ops at my current company are the exact same.. 1/3 to 1/2 the pay and a 3-6 month stint doing the exact jobs a full-time entry level engineer or marketing person would do.

[web]

friemds daughter had 2 different summer internships which paid zippo.......I say its corporate abuse

[RailBaronYarr]

Any chance of some small projects going in some tiny infill areas? In my (humble) opinion one of the things that makes a street or area fun/great/interesting is the variety of buildings - age, # stories, width, materials used, architectural style, etc. Adding tons of housing along with more ground-level retail is great in all these mega-block projects, but there are tiny areas all over the place that a smaller developer could feasibly come in and build a 2-3 story place. Some sites in my mind:

- Sally's parking lot. Set-back retail like this no suitable for a super-walkable area like Washington Ave. Leave the patio area and extend the Goldy's Lockerroom/B&J building up to the sidewalk, add another story above it. If parking mins are a problem, use some alley space in the back?
- Parking between Stub&Herbs and the Vietnamese place. 45 ' wide.
- ValU Liquors/Hong Kong Noodles site - so much parking, and for an area that will technically allow cars but largely serve rail/peds the entrance on to Washington seems to be a bit much - it's 66 feet!
- Any chance Metro Transit will allow that triangle at the junction of Washington, University, and Huron to have something go in?
- Up in Dinkytown, the parking lot in front of the Subway on 14th and 5th.. With everything going up around it this seems way to prime to be a surface lot.
- Old Klaeber Court site (mentioned above) - ok this has 'large block development' written on it instead of small infill. Maybe the U can sell pieces of it off starting on the Dinkytown edge in 20-30' wide parcels?

There is obviously a ton of other land I could point out on the SV side as well as over in Dinkytown that is underutilized - surface parking, vacant lots, etc. I hate to admit that I like Madison but one of the great things about that place is that State Street is a great spine of architecture, shopping, dining, and transit-only (great for peds), but there are tons of 2-3 story buildings all over the place surrounding campus. Perhaps the U should be more strategic about leasing street-fronting space out to the privat sector for buildings like parking ramps that have no good public utility.

Just spit-ballin. What is holding things like this back from happening? Business owners unwilling to part with parking? Zoning rules? Or if I had $3M lying around could I walk up there are start developing?

[Tom H.]

I totally agree with you in principle, but you're not likely to see any small-scale developments (anywhere, really) because there are no more small developers. I think there's an economy of scale here, where you get a lot more bang for your buck to redevelop a full half-block, rather than a small 45'x100' parcel. I'm not sure how you solve this problem, but it is a problem. By the time Washington Ave is redeveloped from Moos Tower to University with nothing but 6-story, half-block long buildings, we'll really lament the small-scale urbanism that we apparently can't do anymore.

[RailBaronYarr]

I think part of it has to do with zoning (parking minimums and either the space or cost that comes with it) and land-tax vs improvements tax. I think the other part is the law prohibiting people from investing in their own community through real estate. Big brokers and developers are the only ones who can get the funds to improve a place because it takes so much money. Getting cash from the federal or state level to help (which is a horrible practice in the first place) does not favor private business owners or local guys with little experience - tough to compete for those grants (EPA, LEED, etc).

I just wish it were possible. I'm sure these big buildings will be better to walk past than surface lots. But 'better than total crap' is not my goal.. we can do much better, and a mix of big/small buildings is part of that.