Red Line (Cedar Avenue BRT)

[thespeedmccool]

Red Line is a bigger failure to me than the Northstar, and although I don't think I can back that up with numbers, I'm emotionally 100% sure of it. It's absolutely the worst symptom of the CTIB's bias toward suburbia -- a Bloomington to Apple Valley transitway is such an uninspired and worthless concept that I really can't explain how this was allowed to happen.

My pet theory is that it's gonna get downgraded to a lettered route when the Riverview Corridor opens and Riverview will get to be the Red Line (unless of course it gets extended to downtown Minneapolis.)

[Oreos&Milk]

Yea if the red line was “expanded” to its original intent with an express trip to downtown Minneapolis and downtown St. Paul at LEAST during rush hour then yes it would be worth it’s weight in gold… rose gold to be specific…

Maybe when everything opens up and Metro Transit and MVTA can find a way to be besties then who knows. Maybe?

[Bakken2016]

https://racketmn.com/a-battle-over-a-hi ... eeing-red/

[thespeedmccool]

https://racketmn.com/a-battle-over-a-hi ... eeing-red/

1. Killing opt-out providers, though the right idea, just won't happen. Metro Transit/Met Council are politically toxic, whereas no one seems to care about the problems of MVTA, SW, MGT, etc. (which is especially weird when you consdier that opt-out services have higher per-rider subsidies.)
2. Maybe this will just end up killing the Red Line. I can imagine Metro letting MVTA have it but making them number it
   "400" or something and keeping "Red" for the Riverview Line

[Bakken2016]

Red Line won’t be going anywhere….. Metro Transit just bought new buses for the line and is working on installing Go To Readers to align payment structure with the rest of BRT.


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[DanPatchToget]

Compromise: MVTA can have the Red Line back if Eagan and Apple Valley agree to up-zone around existing and future Red Line stations, and repurpose one lane in each direction on Cedar Avenue to bus lanes.

[Bakken2016]

Well the only station in Eagan is Cedar Grove Station, and the development near that is good in my opinion. Apple Valley are the ones that need to light a fire under their butts about up zoning. Also, the Red Line doesn't really need bus lanes imho, it has the shoulder which works fine.

[DanPatchToget]

Cliff Road is being looked at for a future station.

Cedar Avenue doesn't need the current 3 lanes in each direction for cars. Plus the bus lanes could also be used by MVTA's local and express buses.

[Bakken2016]

Red Line will return to using Apple Valley Transit Station and level boarding at all stations starting 4/10/23.

https://twitter.com/mt_mn_alerts/status ... TLknE9LmOw


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[DanPatchToget]

Finally. Still irritated from when I used the Red Line from AVTS in summer 2021 and there was no wayfinding signage to the Red Line boarding area, and they didn't use the perfectly good bus bay at the station that can be used by any bus.

[Bakken2016]

Finally. Still irritated from when I used the Red Line from AVTS in summer 2021 and there was no wayfinding signage to the Red Line boarding area, and they didn't use the perfectly good bus bay at the station that can be used by any bus.

Yeah, you can blame MVTA for that, they didn’t want Metro Transit operating out of AVTS, but they finally came to an agreement.


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[Bakken2016]

The Red Line 147th St Station received 7 million in the Transportation Omnibus bill to build a skyway between the northbound and southbound platforms.

All I can think of is what a waste of 7 million dollars.

[Hero]

7 Million? For the 7 people who use that station? I exaggerate but this has to be one of the lowest ridership BRT stops in the system.

[DanPatchToget]

7 Million? For the 7 people who use that station? I exaggerate but this has to be one of the lowest ridership BRT stops in the system.

And the service isn't even BRT. The frequency is every 30 minutes in each direction.

If there were high rises in that area that could be connected with this skyway then I'd be fine with it, but if they want a skyway just because it takes 30 seconds to cross one massive road then they don't deserve that money.

[thespeedmccool]

That's just the politics of the bonding bill. Everyone wants their cut, so some jurisdictions make up silly projects to get a piece of the pie.

I would be willing to bet land use reform will feature prominently in the next year's legislative session. Even-year sessions tend to focus on policy, and land use is having a moment at state legislatures right now. Upzoning near transit is so easy, I would put 90% odds on it if they're going to do anything on land use at all.

That all to say, there's a chance that Cedar Avenue isn't so suburban in a few years.

[Hero]

7 Million? For the 7 people who use that station? I exaggerate but this has to be one of the lowest ridership BRT stops in the system.

And the service isn't even BRT. The frequency is every 30 minutes in each direction.

If there were high rises in that area that could be connected with this skyway then I'd be fine with it, but if they want a skyway just because it takes 30 seconds to cross one massive road then they don't deserve that money.

According to Google it takes 5 minutes to walk from one station to the other.

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/147th+S ... ?entry=ttu

For those adventurous enough to dodge seven lanes of traffic the DOT has added a fence to hurdle in the center.

https://www.google.com/maps/@44.7369291 ... ?entry=ttu

Why didn't they put the stations next to 147th to cut down on that near 1/4 mile walk and be next to route 440 on 147th? It almost seems this station was designed to discourage ridership.

[Oreos&Milk]

The Red Line 147th St Station received 7 million in the Transportation Omnibus bill to build a skyway between the northbound and southbound platforms.

All I can think of is what a waste of 7 million dollars.

Yes, a complete waste!

However, hypothetically speaking..

If there was by chance a redevelopment in the works of Valley Buick GMC, Superlock Storage, and several other retail outlets in the area and proposing urban housing development of 5-6 floors of apartments (with retail on the ground level) and bringing some 500-1,500 new housing units then I would absolutely support this still mildly wasteful spending project as it would actually have some ounce of potential success. However, that is not the case, there for this skyway will be a complete waste of funds.

Who cares if it takes 5 minutes or 90 seconds for imaginary people to walk from Northbound to Southbound platforms? We don't need to spend 7 million on a glass tube for the homeless to sleep and pee in. Should be ONLY built if and when a housing development project breaks ground that can warrant actual people who would need to travel from platform to platform and cross the massive roadway/freeway.

[Mdcastle]

Haven't we determined by now that there's no market for / no developers just begging for the chance to build 5 over 2 mixed use buildings. As opposed to only doing it if forced to include retail as a condition of the city approving the apartments, and then the retail stays mostly vacant?

[DanPatchToget]

Maybe not along Cedar Avenue, though Apple Valley and developers can feel free to prove me wrong, but I wouldn't generalize the entire region.

[mattaudio]

However, hypothetically speaking..

• There has been a major transit station at 155th St since the mid-1990s, consistently one of the highest ridership stations in the metro.
• It was expanded and moved across the street with platforms and a skyway on Cedar in 2009.
• Red Line "BRT" started service to it in 2013.
• Additional levels were added to the parking garage in 2019.
• 14 years later, the western skyway pier serves a Jiffy Lube, Transmission Doctor, and Midas Auto.
• 25 years later, the 15-screen movie theater which shared a lot with the original transit station across the street is torn down with an 80,000 SF retail warehouse planned in its spot.
• Still no new apartments.