Blue Line Extension - Bottineau LRT

[Anondson]

And a survey to take.

https://content.govdelivery.com/account ... ns/3686deb

[thespeedmccool]

You know, I like seeing two stations in the heart of North Minneapolis, but I really cannot stand losing the direct connection to the D Line. Seems like an unjustifiable mistake.

Otherwise, I think I prefer the North Loop alignment because we get more transit service in an increasingly dense neighborhood, plus dodge the Lyndale question that "activists" and "concerned citizens" are pushing.

I think the 21st option would be a mistake. It impacts actual homes as opposed to just businesses, requires cutting across the block at James, and pushes transit away from the activity center of the neighborhood (why do we keep forcing transit to make sacrifices?). My hot take is that most of the commercial properties that would be "impacted' by the West Broadway alignment are not particularly nice buildings with not many years left in them anyway (what with development being pretty rapid in the city) and they wouldn't be much of a loss so long as the business there now could be safely relocated.

I would say that the Blue Line Extension team seems to be really thorough and forthright with the planning. If one single activist says some nonsense like "we weren't told about this" or "no one knows what the impact of this will be," it will prove finally and totally that you just can't placate NIMBYs with planning and communication.

[Bakken2016]

Staff Recommendation from today’s Corridor Management Committee.


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[daveybabymsp]

Staff Recommendation from today’s Corridor Management Committee.


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No Fremont/Emerson station is crazy to me


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[Silophant]

Can't wait to sit waiting for lights at the extra eight grade crossings, secure in the knowledge that wasting all the time of all of the thousands of Blue Line riders is saving a couple dozen homeowners from the unthinkable horror of having the speeding traffic on Lyndale be replaced by a quiet electric train.

[Tom H.]

Blue Line light-rail extension recommended for north Minneapolis.

Early community reaction is positive, especially from Jeremiah Ellison.

Design of the new 21st Ave bridge will be extremely important, to avoid it just becoming an extension of the 94 offramp full of speeding traffic. I'm curious what the Park Board thinks a possible "land bridge" could look like here, as they suggest.

[twincitizen]

Did they choose a specific option for the 21st Ave bridge over 94, or is that TBD later on?
Referring to pages 5-7 on this doc: https://metrocouncil.org/Transportation ... rials.aspx

As someone who lives along the current Blue Line, I'm pretty giddy about the Washington & Plymouth Station, both for direct access to the north end of North Loop and convenient access across the river to Boom Island. That station ought to have very high ridership, probably in the top 3 on the entire extension. The area surrounding the station has high population density, decent job density nearby, bus transfers from Route 7, limited parking. It's got all the ingredients to boost ridership, which will help the project get a strong rating from the FTA.

With the choice to use 10th Avenue, right now would be a great time to start a formal push to remove the 94 viaducts through North Loop. Without the viaducts in the way, it would open up the possibility of elevating a short section over 10th Avenue, avoiding several stoplights.

[Tom H.]

They actually unveiled a new design for the 21st Ave bridge, which would actually invovle a full extension of 21st Ave across 94 (ped, bike, vehicular traffic). It would intersect with the 94 off-ramp at-grade, which the engineers said would take some left-turn pressure off of Broadway proper since so many exiting vehicles are really trying to get east anyway. It's important that LRT get signal priority and that the new 21st Ave extension is calmed/narrow enough so that it doesn't become a car sewer for exiting 94 traffic.

In my wildest dreams, I also like to imagine what that whole area could look like if 94 was removed between 55 and 694 and replaced with a better Washington Avenue. One can imagine an LRT spur just continuing northward, or running in the repurposed / covered trench, etc. But that's for another day.

Edited: here's the screenshot

21stave.png

[twincitizen]

Here's the full presentation from the Corridor Management Committee meeting on 8/10: https://metrocouncil.org/getdoc/f92eafe ... sItem.aspx

Next meeting is 9/14. From my reading of the project website, the next formal steps will be approval of the new route by Hennepin County and Met Council, then securing municipal consent (again) from all of the cities. I feel pretty confidently that Minneapolis will give municipal consent for the new route. It sounds like the bigger hurdle for the project is going to be securing municipal consent from Robbinsdale and Crystal. The City Councils (and residents) in these two towns have been having an unreasonably negative reaction to the plan to run the train down the middle of CSAH-81/Bottineau. I'm not sure if much has changed in the 2+ years since that announcement. The presentation linked above says the timeframe for gaining municipal consent is Q3 2024.

It's wild that the old route was at like >50% engineering status, but only the last 3.5 miles (north of 73rd Ave) of trackage and stations remain unchanged from that initial route selection. I'm interested to hear how long it will take to complete engineering drawings for the new route in Minneapolis, as well as how far along they are in engineering drawings for the revised portion in Robbinsdale/Crystal. Presumably the project office has been working on that over the past 2 years considering the lack of alternatives. Of course, also very interested to hear the revised budget, almost certainly topping $2 Billion.

Lastly, I really hope they will consider ending the line at 85th Ave (North Hennepin Community College), whether in the near-term or indefinitely. That would shave off two stations (93rd and Oak Grove Pkwy/Target North) and 1.5-1.75 miles of track. The justification for running this line out beyond 610 to Target North Campus was always razor thin, and post-pandemic I'm having a hard time identifying a viable ridership source for those last two stations. Ending the line at the community college and turning a portion of its parking lot into a transit center (bus connections and P&R) would seemingly accomplish the project goals just fine, while simultaneously helping to keep the budget closer to the estimates from 5+ years ago. Beyond the benefit of helping to mask the coming budget increase announcement, another benefit I see to ending at 85th is that it would allow revisiting the route terminus in a future extension study. I always favored the "dual terminus" alternative floated back in the original AA (2011-12ish) that would have split the route into two branches, one to Target North and the other to Maple Grove Arbor Lakes, presumably offering 24- or 30-minute headways on the suburban branches and 12- or 15-minute headways on the "main line". That service pattern makes perfect sense for the exurban land uses and low ridership projections.

[Bakken2016]

Robbinsdale did elect a pro Blue Line Extension city council in 2022, so I see no issue there.


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[daveybabymsp]

Brooklyn Park probably wants to keep the northernmost two stations given that the terminus station area (oak grove parkway) is mostly undeveloped land that they want to see developed as mixed use TOD according to their comp plan. And if the light rail can spur that kind of development, it could actually could be a fairly high ridership station.

[thespeedmccool]

Love how the presentation claims both the James and Lyndale Avenue stations would be good for connections to the D Line when both are like three blocks away and there could just be a station at Emerson/Fremont.

[Tom H.]

Is there a technical reason why they chose James over Emerson/Fremont? Is the stop spacing too close? I can't imagine that the headways would be short enough for that to be a problem.

[HiawathaGuy]

Is there a technical reason why they chose James over Emerson/Fremont? Is the stop spacing too close? I can't imagine that the headways would be short enough for that to be a problem.

IIRC, I believe the Emerson to Fremont block is too short for a 3-car station.

[thespeedmccool]

Is there a technical reason why they chose James over Emerson/Fremont? Is the stop spacing too close? I can't imagine that the headways would be short enough for that to be a problem.

IIRC, I believe the Emerson to Fremont block is too short for a 3-car station.

But the Lyndale block is the same length, no?

[Bakken2016]

Is there a technical reason why they chose James over Emerson/Fremont? Is the stop spacing too close? I can't imagine that the headways would be short enough for that to be a problem.

IIRC, I believe the Emerson to Fremont block is too short for a 3-car station.

But the Lyndale block is the same length, no?

I'm intrigued to see more renderings, but yeah they look the same length in Google Maps.

[daveybabymsp]

I wonder if it is just for stop spacing reasons? This way they can fit 3 stations from 94 to Penn with about .5 mile spacing, which is the same spacing as the green line in Saint Paul. With just Emerson and Penn there are 2 stations ~.75 miles apart and it doesn’t make much sense to put a 3rd station on either side of Emerson. I guess the tradeoff is either a station with a great connection to the D line vs a poor connection with the F line but with more residents/businesses in walking distance of stations? Not sure the third station is worth it but idk what metro transit’s reasoning is

[Tom H.]

I guess the tradeoff is either a station with a great connection to the D line vs a poor connection with the F line but with more residents/businesses in walking distance of stations? Not sure the third station is worth it but idk what metro transit’s reasoning is

Agree that this is the key tradeoff consideration, and this seems like the perfect decision to be made through the community engagement process they have spent so much time cultivating.

[daveybabymsp]

What do people think about adding another station on 7th street just north of Olson/6th? Would be a good transfer point for both the C and D lines, but current land use around the station is very poor and it is less than .5 miles from target field station. And of course there is a travel time penalty for adding any more stops.

[Bakken2016]

What do people think about adding another station on 7th street just north of Olson/6th? Would be a good transfer point for both the C and D lines, but current land use around the station is very poor and it is less than .5 miles from target field station. And of course there is a travel time penalty for adding any more stops.

I was thinking about that or a station at 5th St & 10th Ave to provide better service for bus operators who want to use transit to get to and from work. Plus, it's a matter of time before those parking lots along 5th St past Inbound will get redeveloped.