Green Line Extension - Southwest LRT

[Anondson]

Anyone have a reason why they'd do that? It doesn't seem like they wanted the sidewalk to meet the railroad perpendicularly, because all of ten feet away no such jog exists where the sidewalk crosses the LRT tracks.

I believe the zigzag you noticed is due to safety regulations for ped crossings of freight rail.

[Bakken2016]

The footage really drives home how much of SWLRT is running through undevelopable wetlands, along highways, and industrial areas. And it's pretty stunning how little they have done north/east of Hopkins.

I believe there are some developments proposed for some of the wetlands already.


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[pjknight01]

I will say though, I get the need to keep people away from an active construction site but many of the trail closures look like they could easily be reopened if there was an actual desire to do so.

Also there is a sidewalk jog at blake road that biking on I almost ate it in the ballast because i wasn't paying attention and didn't expect the sidewalk to take a 90 degree turn.

Finally I did see that they are starting the installation of the power and signals systems out in Eden Prairie and I have heard that they will most likely be bringing a train out to that end to start testing before the full alignment is competed

How are they going to get a train down there? I thought the only place they can add trains is south of Franklin ave on the blue line.

[DanPatchToget]

I will say though, I get the need to keep people away from an active construction site but many of the trail closures look like they could easily be reopened if there was an actual desire to do so.

Also there is a sidewalk jog at blake road that biking on I almost ate it in the ballast because i wasn't paying attention and didn't expect the sidewalk to take a 90 degree turn.

Finally I did see that they are starting the installation of the power and signals systems out in Eden Prairie and I have heard that they will most likely be bringing a train out to that end to start testing before the full alignment is competed

How are they going to get a train down there? I thought the only place they can add trains is south of Franklin ave on the blue line.

A big truck and a big crane would be my guess.

[COLSLAW5]

Yea same way they are trucking the trains down south to Louisiana I belive to get refurbished.

[Tom H.]

EP Local News - Manager: Don’t expect partial LRT service ahead of schedule

SWLRT manager gives a short update on construction progress. Highlights:

• No partial service on the western leg of the line
• Civil construction expected to be complete in EP area by end of this year
• Testing on the western leg of the route expected in 2025 / 2026
• Kenilworth tunnel about 55% complete
• "Confident" funding shortfall will be filled
• Expect more visible transit police presence on trains (if they can hire enough officers)

[Silophant]

It occurs to me that there's a silver lining with construction being delayed: if it was actually opening this fall as planned, we'd be running, what, probably 30 minute frequencies at best? The way it's going it may very well take 3-4 more years to staff up to however many LRV operators they need to run the expanded service.

[DanPatchToget]

I'd rather have 30-minute frequency than 0, as long as it doesn't take away the high frequency service on the Green Line between the downtowns.

[Bakken2016]

I'd rather have 30-minute frequency than 0, as long as it doesn't take away the high frequency service on the Green Line between the downtowns.

I agree with Silophant, I definitely don't think Metro Transit is in a place currently where expanding service is possible. Also, you don't build LRT and then run 30 min headways, other cities do that and it baffles me.

[daveybabymsp]

With current staffing it seems like quite the challenge to have blue line extension and green line extension operating at 10 min headways in 2030. Who knows what the labor market will be like then, but I’d imagine metro transit will need to at least double the number of operators


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[DanPatchToget]

I'd rather have 30-minute frequency than 0, as long as it doesn't take away the high frequency service on the Green Line between the downtowns.

I agree with Silophant, I definitely don't think Metro Transit is in a place currently where expanding service is possible. Also, you don't build LRT and then run 30 min headways, other cities do that and it baffles me.

Perhaps not currently, but according to the timeline above by 2025 or 2026 the western leg would be ready for revenue operations, and who knows how many drivers will be available by that time. I would hope more than it currently is.

As for light rail lines that operate at 30-minute frequency, I agree it's ridiculous if there are already enough drivers to improve frequency, but if it's simply a lack of drivers then that's understandable.

After being planned for decades with more than a decade of that going through political and public turmoil it would be nice if there was something to show for it, as in revenue operations on even just part of the route, instead of trains just going on test-runs while we have to wait a year or two (or heaven forbid more) to have the whole route ready because of the tunnel. I remember in the late 2000s when Southwest LRT was projected to open in 2015 if everything fell into place (spoiler alert: none of it fell into place), and I think it would be a shame to not have something ready a decade later.

[VacantLuxuries]

I get not running an initial revenue service on the western end, that would be a maintenance nightmare without access to a OMF.

But what about the eastern end? Are the structures/track/systems so far behind on the Downtown - Tunnel section that we couldn't get even a year of interim service to the Minneapolis stations?

[twincitizen]

I agree it would be nice to run trains even just to Farmers Market Station as soon as that is physically and operationally possible.

On the other hand, if we get a new route fully approved for the Blue Line extension by mid-2024, and engineering done by early 2026, it would be nice if they could get the work complete on the track junctions and accelerate the track work that impacts the Olson/7th intersection before southwest opens for revenue service. It would look really bad to have SWLRT open and be immediately impacted by work on track switches and whatnot for BLRT.

Does anyone know if they are building out all of the track junctions/switches needed for BLRT as part of the SWLRT project? Although BLRT will now go up 7th rather than Olson, it was always proposed to leave that track junction and cross 7th/Olson at grade. I have to imagine some of that was included in the SW project so that future service disruptions are limited/avoided.

[Tom H.]

Maybe they can poach some prospective LRT operators from SW Transit's driver pool

[MNdible]

Does anyone know if they are building out all of the track junctions/switches needed for BLRT as part of the SWLRT project? Although BLRT will now go up 7th rather than Olson, it was always proposed to leave that track junction and cross 7th/Olson at grade. I have to imagine some of that was included in the SW project so that future service disruptions are limited/avoided.

I don't know, but my guess is that the Blue Line extension tracks will peel off of the already built tail tracks that wrap around HERC, not from the new Green Line tracks (unfortunately, because this locks in the at-grade crossing of 6th Avenue North).

[COLSLAW5]

https://metrocouncil.org/Transportation ... ndale.aspx

if you look at page 8 of the slide it shows the Blue line going on either side with the green line going down the middle.

My hope is that the blue line bids out in late 2025 and starts summer 2026 while the green line is in testing but all civil work is done and maybe they can get this section completed before the green line opening.

[twincitizen]

Since that drawing doesn't include crosswalks, it's hard to tell how the BLRT tracks impact the crosswalk on the east leg of 7th/Olson(6th). I also don't really comprehend how the BLRT tracks would even manage to descend from the elevated junction down to street level in time to be crossing the intersection at-grade, yet we've been told from the beginning that is an at-grade crossing. I guess it does show the free-right turn / porkchop island being removed from that corner, so maybe the former porkchop area affords enough distance to come down to street level.

Are they locked into BLRT crossing 6th at-grade because of what has already been built for Southwest? Or is that a choice being made by the BLRT project? I'd really want to know what the actual cost difference is for the BLRT project to keep the tracks elevated above this one busy & complex intersection, an intersection which we should also be prioritizing safety for peds/bikes and minimizing additional signal delays for buses.

[mattaudio]

The core work for the flying junction was done when Hennepin County built the *second* Target Field Station was built, a few years after the first TFS was built as part of Northstar contruction. There were great diagrams showing how the junction and tail track would come together which appear to have been lost to a website upgrade.

[MNdible]

That's interesting. If you look at google maps for what has been built so far, you can see that they've left space to widen the LRT bridge next to HERC to the north, so that must be the plan.

[Bakken2016]

SWLRT funding.JPG

Green Line Extension funding gap has been filled by the Met Council and Hennepin County.