Green Line Extension - Southwest LRT

[mattaudio]

It wouldn't be unprecedented. When the Blue Line opened in 2004, the initial service was downtown to Ft. Snelling Station since the airport tunnel was not yet complete.

[MattW]

I went running near the construction in Kenilworth the other day. They've laid several segments of track in the corridor. My untrained eye says they have to be closer than 3 more years of construction. But who knows?

[DanPatchToget]

Looking at the Green Line Extension construction website, they anticipate the Kenilworth Trail to reopen in 2025, so I wonder if it means at that point the heavy construction phase of the tunnel will be done and they just have to install the tracks and utilities in the tunnel.

[Bakken2016]

I went running near the construction in Kenilworth the other day. They've laid several segments of track in the corridor. My untrained eye says they have to be closer than 3 more years of construction. But who knows?

Civil construction as far as I am aware will be done in 2025, I'm assume then they need to finish systems construction in the tunnel area. And then isn't there usually a year of testing?

[Korh]

Probably suited for the other thread but wonder how crowded the trail will be since Kenilworth closed years before e scooters and e bikes took off and I think it will still be one of the most popular ways to get from downtown to uptown for awhile (what's the ETA for the bike lanes all the way down Hennepin?)

[minntransplant]

Probably suited for the other thread but wonder how crowded the trail will be since Kenilworth closed years before e scooters and e bikes took off and I think it will still be one of the most popular ways to get from downtown to uptown for awhile (what's the ETA for the bike lanes all the way down Hennepin?)

Hennepin should be done by the end of 2025.

[angrysuburbanite]

Hi everyone, long-time lurker, first time poster (as the saying goes)

I walked around the Town Center Station area in EP and got a couple pictures--since then, crossing signals and signage to the station have been installed, along with the catenary system. The alignment in Eden Prairie feels ready for service, it's a shame we have to wait four more years. I know me and many others in the area look forward to using it![attachment=0]IMG_1107-min.JPG[/attachment][attachment=1]IMG_1101-min.JPG[/attachment][attachment=2]IMG_1090-min.JPG[/attachment]

On another note, a new project near the Golden Triangle Station broke ground last month, here's the page on the EP website about it: https://gis.edenprairie.org/currentdevelopmentprojects/?data_id=dataSource_1-Current_PlanningProjects_Live_1830%3A40837&page=Project-Details

Finally, I am really curious to see how SWLRT performs ridership-wise. With all of the TOD currently being built, ridership seems more promising than it did a couple years ago, but the commuter market is almost non existent at this point. SW Transit's daily express ridership is only 800 people a day. I feel like SWLRT will not be an immediate success like the previous two lines, but will slowly grow ridership as more development occurs. However, I could be wrong since, despite the controversy around the Met Council and cost overruns, the Twin Cities has high levels of rail bias. It also doesn't feel like it will fail like the Red and Northstar lines since (a) the communities SWLRT runs through are actively working to build TOD and new districts, and (b) it runs frequently all-day, so you don't need a schedule to ride it. My prediction is around 15-20,000 riders a day by 2030.

[DanPatchToget]

Where did you find SW Transit's ridership? Looking at SW Transit's schedule there's 21 daily roundtrips (1 on Route 600 + 4 on Route 695 + 16 on Route 698), which split evenly for each one-way trip would be 19 riders assuming there's 800 total daily riders.

15-20K average daily ridership in 2030, or maybe even the first full year of operation assuming it's 2027-2028 looks possible as the current ridership on the Blue Line is 15-20K. However, since the pandemic, I'm a wait-and-see person.

[angrysuburbanite]

The SW Transit ridership is from the APTA database for Q3 2023. It shows a total daily ridership of 1,300 split with 800 from buses and 500 from demand response. Granted, more recent data from the NTD (which I just discovered) looks a bit different, October had 25k total bus rides, or about 1,143 a day, assuming there are 22 weekdays that month, so at least it's trending upward...

[Bakken2016]

I've always wondered though how SWLRT's ridership will be reported, since it is an extension of the existing Green Line. I hope it is both reported separate and together with the existing Green Line.

[Anondson]

Ooof.

https://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/ ... -2024.html

[Tom H.]

Strib article on the budget increase

At minimum, it's terrible optics to have this keep creeping up and up and up, even if this increase is smaller in relative terms.

There are some interesting metrics in the article in terms of construction progress:

• Project is "more than 75% complete"
• 18 of 30 concrete cells are installed for the Kenilworth tunnel
• 11 of 16 stations have been completed
• About 10 of 14.5 miles of track installed
• Southwest Station is complete

I'm probably shortchanging systems work / testing / etc., but I still think 2027 is an intentional overestimate for start of service.

[thespeedmccool]

2.7 billion was always an estimate, I think. 2.86 is disappointing, but I'm not concerned about finding that remaining funding.

It's still among the cheaper LRT projects in the country, and it's still great bang for your buck.

If this train had been built through a cut-and-cover tunnel Uptown and ended in Hopkins, it would cost $500 million less and be delivered way before 2027. It's on our planners and politicians to have the will to make the right decisions in the face of bad-faith NIMBY complaints and bizarre federal funding formulae.

In retrospect, the lessons to take away are: 1a. don't build a train through a swamp 1b. build the train where the people are and 2. be willing to stop a line short; it can always be extended later, but it will be very hard to get back the political capital you spent delivering an overbudget project.

[Wezle]

It really does hurt knowing that the overpromising and under delivering of this project will stymie further development of a regional rail system. We need a comprehensive plan, not the piecemeal approach that isn't working for us now. I only hope once this line opens, it is successful and reinvigorates public support for further investment in the system.

Seattle passed Sound Transit 3 in 2016 and has plans to build 62 miles of light rail including multiple segments that plan to begin operations this year. Meanwhile we've spent 15 years on the green line extension with a few years yet to go and 10 years still deciding where we want the blue line extension to end up. Seattle has certainly made some errors with their approach and line locations, but they have policymakers who aren't afraid to go all in on transit.

[DanPatchToget]

It really does hurt knowing that the overpromising and under delivering of this project will stymie further development of a regional rail system. We need a comprehensive plan, not the piecemeal approach that isn't working for us now. I only hope once this line opens, it is successful and reinvigorates public support for further investment in the system.

Seattle passed Sound Transit 3 in 2016 and has plans to build 62 miles of light rail including multiple segments that plan to begin operations this year. Meanwhile we've spent 15 years on the green line extension with a few years yet to go and 10 years still deciding where we want the blue line extension to end up. Seattle has certainly made some errors with their approach and line locations, but they have policymakers who aren't afraid to go all in on transit.

A fun or sad fact depending on how you look at it: The idea of Southwest LRT has been around since the 1980s. Not sure when serious planning began on it though, but I want to say mid-2000s is when the alternatives analysis began on whether to go with bus or rail, and where to route it. I remember reading articles saying Southwest LRT was anticipated to begin operations in 2015.

[EOst]

We could've been a real city:

[Anondson]

We could've been a real city:

Just noticed in that old design, coulda had a Penn Ave connecting North to Isles.

[thespeedmccool]

It really does hurt knowing that the overpromising and under delivering of this project will stymie further development of a regional rail system. We need a comprehensive plan, not the piecemeal approach that isn't working for us now. I only hope once this line opens, it is successful and reinvigorates public support for further investment in the system.

Bingo. Put together a six or seven line proposal, give everyone in the Cities something to like, and put a $15 billion referendum up in the seven-county metro. I almost guarantee it passes.

[uptownbro]

The lack of a long term plan really shows with this line and I do think this will harm the political capital to build future lines outside of the blue line extension. That is the biggest issue imo. I doubt we will get light rail into NE in the next 20 years which is a shame

[Wezle]

The Metro Council is looking to adopt a new 2050 transportation policy plan and regional planning guide this year after their 2040 plans were adopted in 2014. I'm curious to see if any new transit projects come from that due to their new $400-500 million annual guaranteed funding from the 3/4 cent metro sales tax. Or at least a better breakdown of where their new funding will be allocated.

Any major rail transit plan announcements would be pretty unfortunately timed with all of the bad publicity the Met Council and SWLRT has been getting over the last couple years but would be more than welcome from me!