MSP to Rochester High Speed Rail

[commissioner]

They do like their own stations, but mostly for land development reasons. I could see two scenarios where they would be open to using existing infrastructure:

- Union Depot gives them the space and means to create their own customer experience at the station, similar to airport lounges for preferred passengers of given airlines.
- If connecting to Union Depot was made a condition of approval for use of MN-52 ROW. Union Depot is still pretty quiet years after the promise implied in all the renovation money. Perhaps they'd still operate an additional MSP area station of their own elsewhere, such as a station in the southeast suburbs that becomes their main park and ride/development hub.

I don't think the Minneapolis Interchange station would be considered at all, frankly. There's no universe in which Brightline could make that freeway underpass into the luxury experience they've built their brand on. Additionally, I would be shocked if they planned a Chicago train and did not intend to use Chicago Union Station as their final destination. The cost of building new infrastructure there would be astronomical.

I really doubt they would choose Eau Claire over Rochester if their end goal was a new Chicago route. If their other projects follow suit with the way they developed Florida and they build an initial operating segment while they continue developing and negotiating further extensions, MSP-Rochester has far more development potential (on the Rochester side especially) than Eau Claire, and it puts off having to deal with the Wisconsin government for a future phase. I'd like to believe the naysayers in WI would be more amiable to a private rail project, but you never know. Rail might stop being a cost problem for Republicans and become yet another front in the culture war, like with Texas fighting private HSR between Houston and Dallas.

I agree that SPUD would be the choice. If we could get the St Paul Downtown Airport closed as part of this it would open up so much land for Brightline to develop that is now just surface parking lots which would make the service much more attractive to them.

I don't see ST Paul Downtown Airport closing, That airport is the busiest airport of the all the Twin Cities airports besides MSP, and I doubt between the airport commission and probably 3M, they won't let it happen not to mention that it pretty much closes every time we have a major flood, and it's a ways away from 52 anyway.

[seanrichardryan]

STP has the longest runway of the regional reliever airports.

[thespeedmccool]

It would definitely be a decade(s)-long project at a minimum to get rid of that airport, but it's terrible land use by any measure and should be done. I wouldn't be surprised if, in the future, a St. Paul mayor made it their personal project to get it done.

[Tom H.]

STP has the longest runway of the regional reliever airports.

I'm no airport expert, but it certainly seems as if Anoka-Blaine has enough land to extend a runway to match or exceed DtSP's runway length.

[SurlyLHT]

STP has the longest runway of the regional reliever airports.

I'm no airport expert, but it certainly seems as if Anoka-Blaine has enough land to extend a runway to match or exceed DtSP's runway length.

I agree, glancing at Google Maps the Blaine Airport has way more room. It has good interstate access as well. That land is just too valuable. Space could also be set aside for flood waters. Be a good place for environmental restoration. It'll also allow for tower buildings in Downtown St Paul.

This is all of the thread topic however

[StandishGuy]

Just wishing for Bright Line or another private company to run HSR doesn't mean it would make financial sense for a route between MSP and Chicago. The City Geek video showed that the corridors that are being pursued now Miami/ Orlando, Houston/ DFW, San Francisco/ Los Angeles, and Los Angeles/ Las Vegas all work because of the significant populations of those regions. For example Miami and Dallas/ Ft. Worth both have more than 6 million in their regions connecting to other major regions. Plus, the distances are far less than MSP to Chicago, which is 400 miles, outside the ideal range of about 300 miles. The Chicago to Detroit and St. Louis routes made the top 10 list because the distance between each is 300 miles. Chicago to Milwaukee is a no-brainer because of the short distance, but extending to Madison and further makes less sense for HSR.

[Trademark]

Just wishing for Bright Line or another private company to run HSR doesn't mean it would make financial sense for a route between MSP and Chicago. The City Geek video showed that the corridors that are being pursued now Miami/ Orlando, Houston/ DFW, San Francisco/ Los Angeles, and Los Angeles/ Las Vegas all work because of the significant populations of those regions. For example Miami and Dallas/ Ft. Worth both have more than 6 million in their regions connecting to other major regions. Plus, the distances are far less than MSP to Chicago, which is 400 miles, outside the ideal range of about 300 miles. The Chicago to Detroit and St. Louis routes made the top 10 list because the distance between each is 300 miles. Chicago to Milwaukee is a no-brainer because of the short distance, but extending to Madison and further makes less sense for HSR.

I doubt true high speed rail will ever come to Chi-msp. But a high speed section between mke to chi and Rochester to St Paul and 110 mph the rest of the way would still be pretty competitive. Even if it doesn't beat planes, it would still pick up people who want more leg room, or don't want to deal with the mess that is Chicago traffic and ohare

[Korh]

They do like their own stations, but mostly for land development reasons. I could see two scenarios where they would be open to using existing infrastructure:

- Union Depot gives them the space and means to create their own customer experience at the station, similar to airport lounges for preferred passengers of given airlines.
- If connecting to Union Depot was made a condition of approval for use of MN-52 ROW. Union Depot is still pretty quiet years after the promise implied in all the renovation money. Perhaps they'd still operate an additional MSP area station of their own elsewhere, such as a station in the southeast suburbs that becomes their main park and ride/development hub.

I don't think the Minneapolis Interchange station would be considered at all, frankly. There's no universe in which Brightline could make that freeway underpass into the luxury experience they've built their brand on. Additionally, I would be shocked if they planned a Chicago train and did not intend to use Chicago Union Station as their final destination. The cost of building new infrastructure there would be astronomical.

I really doubt they would choose Eau Claire over Rochester if their end goal was a new Chicago route. If their other projects follow suit with the way they developed Florida and they build an initial operating segment while they continue developing and negotiating further extensions, MSP-Rochester has far more development potential (on the Rochester side especially) than Eau Claire, and it puts off having to deal with the Wisconsin government for a future phase. I'd like to believe the naysayers in WI would be more amiable to a private rail project, but you never know. Rail might stop being a cost problem for Republicans and become yet another front in the culture war, like with Texas fighting private HSR between Houston and Dallas.

I agree that SPUD would be the choice. If we could get the St Paul Downtown Airport closed as part of this it would open up so much land for Brightline to develop that is now just surface parking lots which would make the service much more attractive to them.

I don't see ST Paul Downtown Airport closing, That airport is the busiest airport of the all the Twin Cities airports besides MSP, and I doubt between the airport commission and probably 3M, they won't let it happen not to mention that it pretty much closes every time we have a major flood, and it's a ways away from 52 anyway.

Well in a few years 3M might not be around to do anything so that's one potential obstacle gone.
t. someone's whos held shares for years and for the past 5 has being weighing if the earplug and forever chemicals lawsuits will bankrupt them or not

[grrdanko]

Why?

https://m.startribune.com/a-700-mph-tun ... lmob=y&c=n

[mattaudio]

Weird transport grifts/vaporware to Rochester are almost expected at this point.
Weird endorsement quote from Bloomington's city manager was the actual shocker to me in that article. Yikes.

[grrdanko]

Weird transport grifts/vaporware to Rochester are almost expected at this point.
Weird endorsement quote from Bloomington's city manager was the actual shocker to me in that article. Yikes.

I saw that too. If I were on the Bloomington city council I'd have some service questions about keeping the city manager.

[Mdcastle]

Citizens in Bloomington have been raising questions about the city manager before.

[mattaudio]

That's a little extreme. This feels like another manifestation of a problem I see everywhere, that cities, chambers, and boosters are all about getting and supporting any funding request no matter how valid or useful.

[J. Mc]

If we were to push for a hyper-pricey hyperloop to Rochester though then would they finally give us a cost saving decent regional rail line service there to shut us up?

[angrysuburbanite]

It's really hilarious to me that anyone even brought up the idea of studying some fringe gadgetbahn system between a city pair that does not currently have any proven ridership. While I think this concept is silly and should not be pursued, I would be marginally less skeptical if there was already proven, successful service between the two cities.

[mattaudio]

I've said it before, but the easiest way to get rail service from MSP to Rochester is via Owatonna. This would increase travel time (driving St. Paul to Rochester is 1:15, but going via Owatonna bumps it to 1:50) but Owatonna, Faribault, and Northfield may be slight trip generators.
Lots of options for getting this done on existing CPKC and possibly UP rails. Routing would depend on if it splits from the UP spine line at Comus, Medford, or with a ramp/flyover at the existing CPKC/UP grade separation in Owatonna. It would also depend on following UP to SPUD, or reviving the Dan Patch from Northfield to St. Louis Park to access Target Field Station.

[Mdcastle]

If the idea is to get funding for stuff as oppossed to actually getting stuff that's feasible or useful, maybe we could offer grants for digging ditches and then filling them in.