Amtrak: Long-distance trains

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Tom H.
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Amtrak: Long-distance trains

Postby Tom H. » February 20th, 2024, 4:15 pm

Don't know if this belongs here or in its own thread, but the FRA has been working on a long-distance passenger rail study and just released a new presentation.

https://fralongdistancerailstudy.org/
Link to February 2024 presentation (preferred route map on page 53)

I think this is just a list of recommendations for further study, but 4 of the routes go through the Twin Cities (3 as terminus):

  • Chicago - Seattle (via Twin Cities / Bismarck / Billings / Helena)
  • Twin Cities - Denver (via Sioux Falls)
  • Twin Cities - Phoenix (via Omaha / KC / ABQ)
  • Twin Cities - San Antonio (via Des Moines / KC / DFW)
No idea if Amtrak will ever consider any of these recommendations seriously or implement them, but I'm intrigued the prospect of 2 of these routes passing through Sioux Falls, as I grew up there and think there's a decent amount of demand between there and MSP. (South Dakota is also the only of the lower 48 states to never have had Amtrak service.)

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angrysuburbanite
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Re: Amtrak: Empire Builder and Great River (TCMC)

Postby angrysuburbanite » February 20th, 2024, 8:24 pm

Exciting to see more and more support for better regional rail! Stupid question: How does the FRA and Amtrak link together? Are they both working on separate things or are they both cooperating to create an enhanced system?

Amusing to me that the United States has gone to the moon (multiple times!), but we don't have a way to get to our *neighboring state* via rail...
"A developed country is not a place where the poor have cars. It's where the rich use public transportation."

Note: Many of the thoughts expressed above may be pretty stupid or ill-informed, with some rare good ideas interspersed.

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Re: Amtrak: Empire Builder and Great River (TCMC)

Postby Silophant » February 20th, 2024, 9:58 pm

This is the FRA running a study for recommended long-distance train routes, which theoretically could be operated by any entity, but Amtrak is the only passenger rail organization in the US that can (relatively) easily operate on the various host railroads' tracks, and also the only one that's run any long-haul trains since the 70s.

Basically, Amtrak doesn't actually plan any service outside the Northeast Corridor (NEC) between DC and Boston, which is the only place in the US where they actually own the tracks. Everything else is either the long-distance network (routes longer than 750mi), which hasn't really had any planning until this FRA study, since it's only shrunk since the formation of Amtrak in 1971, or state-supported routes, which are planned and subsidized by the relevant state DOTs. Hence why states like California and Illinois have reasonable (for North America) Amtrak networks, and why the TCMC train has languished for (checks the date on page 1 of this thread) well over a decade waiting for MN and WI to get government support lined up.
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Re: Amtrak: Long-distance trains

Postby Silophant » February 20th, 2024, 10:05 pm

As for the study, I'd been waiting for it to come out, but I was surprised to see three separate MSP-points south trains in addition to the restored Chicago-Seattle North Coast Hiawatha, which is in a little more advanced stage of planning - it got a $500k FRA grant from the BIL a couple months ago. I'd have expected (and preferred, my family is in Mankato) an Omaha-bound train to go down the Minnesota River through Mankato and Sioux City on its way there instead of two frequencies via Willmar/Marshall/Sioux Falls, but I guess the Omaha/Sioux Falls connection is important too.
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Re: Amtrak: Long-distance trains

Postby mulad » February 21st, 2024, 8:23 am

This is also related to the FRA-led Corridor ID Program (ID = "Identification and Development"), which has actually been able to distribute some money for studying new routes and implementing a bit of service. Corridor ID aggregated together a bunch of routes that had been studied by states and the feds, and has tried to put together a more unified vision of how to tie everything together, while this is specifically focused on the long-distance (>750 mile) routes -- I think the results of this are supposed to feed into Corridor ID, but I'm not totally sure.

Amtrak has historically never really had the authority or mandate to look into adding new routes on its own -- they've basically had to just respond to what states and the feds tell them to do. That's changed with recent legislation, which has allowed them to work on that "Amtrak Connects US" plan and work with the FRA on broader plans. That's about all I know, though -- the details of how Amtrak's plan, Corridor ID, and this long-distance study all fit together is vague to me, but at least we now have these two primary entities who are able to be points of contact working with all of the state and regional groups that have been advocating for things piecemeal over the past several decades.

Long-distance routes are federally-funded, while shorter ones have been required to be funded by states in recent years (after a 2008 law fully went into effect, I think?) -- something that might sound okay at first glance, but pretty silly when you consider how many states can fit within a 750-mile distance, and all the squabbling that they can do between them to torpedo doing effective work on shorter corridors.

Yeah, I'm definitely surprised by how many routes were suggested to go to the Twin Cities. Sounds like the group All Aboard Northwest has claimed some credit for getting ones along the northern tier added. I kind of feel like the Phoenix – Twin Cities one in particular was done to create something that met the >750 mile requirement, since it kind of looks like 2 or 3 routes standing on top of each other in a trenchcoat.

Nonetheless, with the relative sparseness of population in the western US, a lot of these routes probably make the most sense staying long-distance and being federally-funded (assuming it ever gets off the ground), while a lot of shorter routes should mesh together in tighter webs in the eastern part of the country and other denser spots.

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angrysuburbanite
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Re: Amtrak: Long-distance trains

Postby angrysuburbanite » February 21st, 2024, 9:30 am

Ah, thanks for the clarification! :D
"A developed country is not a place where the poor have cars. It's where the rich use public transportation."

Note: Many of the thoughts expressed above may be pretty stupid or ill-informed, with some rare good ideas interspersed.


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