Gold Line BRT - Downtown St. Paul to Woodbury

[Trademark]

Instead of Lexington or Dale it should be Victoria, in the middle of the brand new highway cap (assuming I’m reading the political winds correctly and that is the route they will go)


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That would either require deviations from the 65 and the 83. Or it just wouldn't serve those bus routes. For an express service with limited stops. All of the stops should serve bus lines.

[Tom H.]

I went back and watched the video of the online meeting from Nov(?) 2022, and they are evaluating several options:

* No stops (express from DTSP to DTMpls)
* 1 stop (Snelling)
* 3 stops (25th Ave, Snelling, Dale)
* 5 stops (25th Ave, Huron, Cretin, Snelling, Dale)

Couldn't find this info in any documents, only the video, but that's the range of alternatives apparently. It was specifically mentioned that they planned the Dale station to be integrated into the Rondo cap, so maybe that has to be the station location for some technical reason.

[Trademark]

I went back and watched the video of the online meeting from Nov(?) 2022, and they are evaluating several options:

* No stops (express from DTSP to DTMpls)
* 1 stop (Snelling)
* 3 stops (25th Ave, Snelling, Dale)
* 5 stops (25th Ave, Huron, Cretin, Snelling, Dale)

Couldn't find this info in any documents, only the video, but that's the range of alternatives apparently. It was specifically mentioned that they planned the Dale station to be integrated into the Rondo cap, so maybe that has to be the station location for some technical reason.

Can you share the link to the video!

I don't see why Cretin should be included to be honest.

[MNdible]

1. This should have as few stops as possible. It's paralleling the Green Line, which already does a great job of serving intermediate destinations.
2. This should definitely stop at Huron. The UofM is a massive trip generator.

[Tom H.]

Can you share the link to the video!

Video can be found on this page:

https://talk.dot.state.mn.us/rethinking ... d/meetings

[Silophant]

I don't know that anything except maybe Snelling should be included. With the Green Line a quarter mile north and the B Line a quarter mile south, it's fine to have the third line in the corridor be express service. Huron I'm ambivalent about - the U is a transit powerhouse, for sure, but it's a pretty long walk to the Huron interchange from the actual campus. Maybe with an interchange rebuild to give the buses an online station and a timed campus connector route to get people the last (literal) mile?

How did the existing Huron stop work, back when it was used? Looking at aerials, I can see the westbound stop, where you were then just trapped in the middle of the ramps until a campus connector or whatever came to rescue you, but how did eastbound buses get there? Was it westbound only, and you had to go downtown or to Snelling to pick up the eastbound 94 to go home?

[Trademark]

I don't know that anything except maybe Snelling should be included. With the Green Line a quarter mile north and the B Line a quarter mile south, it's fine to have the third line in the corridor be express service. Huron I'm ambivalent about - the U is a transit powerhouse, for sure, but it's a pretty long walk to the Huron interchange from the actual campus. Maybe with an interchange rebuild to give the buses an online station and a timed campus connector route to get people the last (literal) mile?

How did the existing Huron stop work, back when it was used? Looking at aerials, I can see the westbound stop, where you were then just trapped in the middle of the ramps until a campus connector or whatever came to rescue you, but how did eastbound buses get there? Was it westbound only, and you had to go downtown or to Snelling to pick up the eastbound 94 to go home?

Seward doesn't connect to either the B Line or the Green Line.

The U of M is a massive trip generator (And a likely rework of the Campus Connector shuttles). I think it's worthy of a stop (as long as it doesn't deviate).

I think Dale makes sense just because of what they are trying to do with the Rondo lid, and the redevelopment there.

Cretin makes zero sense whatsoever.

I don't think 4 stops will add much to the running time. The bus will be able to reach 55 mph in between the stations and no traffic lights, the train can't do that. I'm all for quicker express service, but a little bit of connectivity could go a long way.

[LakeCharles]

I don't know that anything except maybe Snelling should be included. With the Green Line a quarter mile north and the B Line a quarter mile south, it's fine to have the third line in the corridor be express service. Huron I'm ambivalent about - the U is a transit powerhouse, for sure, but it's a pretty long walk to the Huron interchange from the actual campus. Maybe with an interchange rebuild to give the buses an online station and a timed campus connector route to get people the last (literal) mile?

How did the existing Huron stop work, back when it was used? Looking at aerials, I can see the westbound stop, where you were then just trapped in the middle of the ramps until a campus connector or whatever came to rescue you, but how did eastbound buses get there? Was it westbound only, and you had to go downtown or to Snelling to pick up the eastbound 94 to go home?

Seward doesn't connect to either the B Line or the Green Line.

The U of M is a massive trip generator (And a likely rework of the Campus Connector shuttles). I think it's worthy of a stop (as long as it doesn't deviate).

I think Dale makes sense just because of what they are trying to do with the Rondo lid, and the redevelopment there.

Cretin makes zero sense whatsoever.

I don't think 4 stops will add much to the running time. The bus will be able to reach 55 mph in between the stations and no traffic lights, the train can't do that. I'm all for quicker express service, but a little bit of connectivity could go a long way.

It's a 0.9 mile walk from the West Bank Green Line stop to Pizza Luce Seward.
It would be about a 1.5 mile walk from the first downtown stop of the Gold Line in downtown Minneapolis (or easy bus connections).
It will be about a 1.3 mile walk from the nearest B Line stop.

The Huron stop would be about 1.4 miles. So if the Green and B Line "don't serve Seward", and the downtown stops don't either, then Huron isn't going to change anything.

[Trademark]

I don't know that anything except maybe Snelling should be included. With the Green Line a quarter mile north and the B Line a quarter mile south, it's fine to have the third line in the corridor be express service. Huron I'm ambivalent about - the U is a transit powerhouse, for sure, but it's a pretty long walk to the Huron interchange from the actual campus. Maybe with an interchange rebuild to give the buses an online station and a timed campus connector route to get people the last (literal) mile?

How did the existing Huron stop work, back when it was used? Looking at aerials, I can see the westbound stop, where you were then just trapped in the middle of the ramps until a campus connector or whatever came to rescue you, but how did eastbound buses get there? Was it westbound only, and you had to go downtown or to Snelling to pick up the eastbound 94 to go home?

Seward doesn't connect to either the B Line or the Green Line.

The U of M is a massive trip generator (And a likely rework of the Campus Connector shuttles). I think it's worthy of a stop (as long as it doesn't deviate).

I think Dale makes sense just because of what they are trying to do with the Rondo lid, and the redevelopment there.

Cretin makes zero sense whatsoever.

I don't think 4 stops will add much to the running time. The bus will be able to reach 55 mph in between the stations and no traffic lights, the train can't do that. I'm all for quicker express service, but a little bit of connectivity could go a long way.

It's a 0.9 mile walk from the West Bank Green Line stop to Pizza Luce Seward.
It would be about a 1.5 mile walk from the first downtown stop of the Gold Line in downtown Minneapolis (or easy bus connections).
It will be about a 1.3 mile walk from the nearest B Line stop.

The Huron stop would be about 1.4 miles. So if the Green and B Line "don't serve Seward", and the downtown stops don't either, then Huron isn't going to change anything.

I meant that it should get a stop at Huron and Seward. Huron is only a .4 mile walk to the Green Line station and there are apartments and density on Huron.

The only thing that would justify Cretin is if they redevelop the Golf Course.

[COLSLAW5]

the U of M is also buying up property to the west of the huron interchange to expand their medical campus so that might help with the walk along there.

[Eoin_Urban]

I think Cretin makes sense from a transit network perspective. It could easily have Route 63, 87, and 134 stop at a Cretin Ave. These routes are close to some key destinations like St. Kate's, St. Thomas, and the Saint Paul campus of the U of M. They also had some pretty good frequency pre-pandemic. (During rush hour it was 15 minutes on 63 and 134, 20 minutes on 87 if I recall correctly.) But the immediate surrounding land use is very poor. It's mostly a golf course, single family homes, and a paper recycling facility. With a transfer penalty to other bus routes, I can't imagine ridership would be great.

How did the existing Huron stop work, back when it was used? Looking at aerials, I can see the westbound stop, where you were then just trapped in the middle of the ramps until a campus connector or whatever came to rescue you, but how did eastbound buses get there? Was it westbound only, and you had to go downtown or to Snelling to pick up the eastbound 94 to go home?

Express and limited stop buses would stop on demand at Huron westbound. Riders going to the U of M would need to take a separate bus (129) to the U of M campus because there were no pedestrian facilities to access the campus. Route 134, 94, and the east metro express (Oakdale, Woodbury, Cottage Grove) buses could stop there in the AM peak only.

You are correct, it was westbound only. Eastbound riders needed to double back to downtown Minneapolis to access their morning bus route.

[Tcmetro]

Some of the routes that would stop at Huron WB would have a variant that went on Washington EB in the afternoon. I recall the 355 and 452 doing that, and I'm sure there were probably some others like the 365.

[BigIdeasGuy]

First are we sure they are 100% going with inline middle lane platform stations like at Lake & 46th on 35W? Beyond obviously being ideal solution, they are probably the only workable solution as well that doesn't kill trip time.

Dale/Victoria could make some sense as long it's part of freeway cap/other development.

Snelling is an absolute must, the A Line would need a little station relocation but nothing major

Cretin makes zero sense to me, even with the network connectivity it could provide

Huron is the other absolute must, although the design of the interchange makes is super challenging without a full rebuild. Without that I'm not sure how a Campus Connector bus could even access the station meaning you would probably end up with a really unpleasant walk across 94 to access the stop. The other option would be to use 27th Ave as the station, combined with Essex that would work along with setting an aBRT route in the future using Franklin.

25th Ave makes sense as well, I do think it's worth looking at other options between 20th & Riverside to see if there is a location that makes more sense.

I'll bring back up my idea of having a Green Line Express LRT running down the middle of 94 between the DT's. I know why will be dismissed for any number or reasons but it would relatively quick, easy & cheap to build vs literally any other route and wouldn't take up that much track assuming it ties into the the current tracks at US Bank Stadium & future Riverview Line around the X.

[Trademark]

First are we sure they are 100% going with inline middle lane platform stations like at Lake & 46th on 35W? Beyond obviously being ideal solution, they are probably the only workable solution as well that doesn't kill trip time.

Dale/Victoria could make some sense as long it's part of freeway cap/other development.

Snelling is an absolute must, the A Line would need a little station relocation but nothing major

Cretin makes zero sense to me, even with the network connectivity it could provide

Huron is the other absolute must, although the design of the interchange makes is super challenging without a full rebuild. Without that I'm not sure how a Campus Connector bus could even access the station meaning you would probably end up with a really unpleasant walk across 94 to access the stop. The other option would be to use 27th Ave as the station, combined with Essex that would work along with setting an aBRT route in the future using Franklin.

25th Ave makes sense as well, I do think it's worth looking at other options between 20th & Riverside to see if there is a location that makes more sense.

I'll bring back up my idea of having a Green Line Express LRT running down the middle of 94 between the DT's. I know why will be dismissed for any number or reasons but it would relatively quick, easy & cheap to build vs literally any other route and wouldn't take up that much track assuming it ties into the the current tracks at US Bank Stadium & future Riverview Line around the X.

The downside with the express LRT is that it would hurt frequencies on both the Blue and Green Lines due to the interlining. It would either need its own ROW in DT Mpls or force a transfer.

And at that point we might as well just build an automated light metro and get 2 minute frequencies. Unfortunately due to cost it won't be considered though.

They are looking at both inline stops using the bus shoulders or online stops using the managed lanes.

[DanPatchToget]

Last weekend I checked out construction between Woodlane Drive and Mounds Boulevard. Here's a brief summary of what I saw at each station site:
Woodlane Drive Station-Dirt has been moved, but nothing besides that from what I could see.

Queens Drive Station-No construction yet.

Tamarack Road Station-The eastbound platform and the busway on Bielenberg Drive are starting to take shape.

Helmo Avenue Station-The eastbound and westbound platforms are taking shape, as well as the bridge over I-94 connecting Helmo and Bielenberg. The busway looks mostly complete except connecting it to 4th Street.

Greenway Avenue Station-A little bit of dirt moved, but nothing substantial yet.

Maplewood Station-Nothing under construction yet.

Sun Ray-Nothing under construction yet, but the underpass at Ruth Street looks around half way done.

Hazel Street-The eastbound and westbound platforms are taking shape, but no busway yet.

Etna Street Station-The eastbound and westbound platforms plus the busway bridge over Etna Street are taking shape. West of Etna Street there's signs of construction for the busway, but nothing yet going east.

Earl Street Station-A lot of digging, but that's pretty much it for now.

Mounds Boulevard Station-The eastbound and westbound platforms are taking shape. The busway and its intersection with Kellogg Boulevard haven't been started yet.

[DanPatchToget]

https://www.twincities.com/2023/11/24/n ... pb3hhra78c

The new bridge across I-94 between Oakdale and Woodbury opens Monday to car and pedestrian traffic.

[DanPatchToget]

Last weekend I checked out construction between Woodlane Drive and Mounds Boulevard. Here's a brief summary of what I saw at each station site:
Woodlane Drive Station-Dirt has been moved, but nothing besides that from what I could see.

Queens Drive Station-No construction yet.

Tamarack Road Station-The eastbound platform and the busway on Bielenberg Drive are starting to take shape.

Helmo Avenue Station-The eastbound and westbound platforms are taking shape, as well as the bridge over I-94 connecting Helmo and Bielenberg. The busway looks mostly complete except connecting it to 4th Street.

Greenway Avenue Station-A little bit of dirt moved, but nothing substantial yet.

Maplewood Station-Nothing under construction yet.

Sun Ray-Nothing under construction yet, but the underpass at Ruth Street looks around half way done.

Hazel Street-The eastbound and westbound platforms are taking shape, but no busway yet.

Etna Street Station-The eastbound and westbound platforms plus the busway bridge over Etna Street are taking shape. West of Etna Street there's signs of construction for the busway, but nothing yet going east.

Earl Street Station-A lot of digging, but that's pretty much it for now.

Mounds Boulevard Station-The eastbound and westbound platforms are taking shape. The busway and its intersection with Kellogg Boulevard haven't been started yet.

Checked out the same spots yesterday and here's what I saw.

Woodlane Drive Station: Substantial progress has been made on the 500-space parking ramp, and I'm guessing by the fall it'll be pretty much complete if not totally complete.

Queens Drive Station: The foundations for the platforms are in.

Tamarack Road Station: The platforms are in, but a lot more work to do before they actually look like bus stations.

Helmo Avenue Station: Looks the same as the last time I was there.*

Greenway Avenue Station: Looks the same as the last time I was there.*

Maplewood Station: Lots of dirt moved, but no signs of the station and busway taking shape yet.

Sun Ray Station: No construction of the station and busway yet.

Hazel Street Station: Looks the same as the last time I was there.*

Etna Street Station: Looks the same as the last time I was there.*

Earl Street Station: This has had substantial progress, as last year what was once part of the freeway trench has been filled in for the busway and the platforms are also in.

Mounds Boulevard Station: The platforms are in and the busway is paved.

*From a non-construction expert POV

In terms of the overall busway between St. Paul and Woodbury there's still some segments where they haven't even begun digging yet, but there's also segments where they've made progress or they began digging. Most of the busway hasn't been paved yet, but several intersections have new traffic signals installed that include dedicated signals for the buses. Bridges for the busway over Johnson Parkway and Etna Street as well as the underpass at Ruth Street look almost done. The busway bridges over McKnight Road, Geneva Avenue, and I-94 are for now mainly just the bridge columns. Nothing substantial going on at White Bear Avenue yet.

[thespeedmccool]

Gold Line is on the verge of being officially delayed. There was substantial trouble getting some utilities moved (I think) and that delayed a large part of the work for a while.

The project committee had to sign off on reordering the project's construction schedule and authorize more winter work this year to keep it on track. They construction team has almost (if not already) burned through it's contingency days. They say there's no more delays anticipated and that it should still open on time at this point, but who knows.

[DanPatchToget]

Gold Line is on the verge of being officially delayed. There was substantial trouble getting some utilities moved (I think) and that delayed a large part of the work for a while.

The project committee had to sign off on reordering the project's construction schedule and authorize more winter work this year to keep it on track. They construction team has almost (if not already) burned through it's contingency days. They say there's no more delays anticipated and that it should still open on time at this point, but who knows.

As I was checking things out it did seem like there was still a lot to do and a 2025 opening, even late in the year, would be pushing it. Fingers crossed they're able to get back on schedule.

[Silophant]

Metro Transit has now updated the project page to set a March 22, 2025 opening date for the Gold Line. Idk if they're going to be working weekends this summer or what.