Harmonia - 255 2nd Ave S - 25ish / 20ish / 10ish stories

[rhettcarlson]

Sherman presented to my building's HOA board. I didn't catch the presentation but meeting minutes were distributed, so take with a grain of salt. Here are the notes:
- Three buildings 10-20 stories
- 900 units
- Retail facing Washington Ave
- Possibly starting 2024
- Affordable units at 60-70% AMI
- Underground parking will be reused - current 12 foot ceilings will be reduced in order to provide more floors of parking, but construction is expected to be less disruptive in general since it is essentially already an excavated site
- Plan to preserve as much existing skyway structure as possible - "great economic benefit to preserving the skyways"

Overall not much we didn't know, except maybe the total unit count. A little disappointing to see them already referencing 20 stories and not a "more than 25-story, mixed-use high-rise building" mentioned in this article: https://tcbmag.com/a-look-at-the-400m-h ... velopment/

[mattaudio]

"Current 12 foot ceilings" underground... sounds perfect for that bus layover facility to replace Gateway Ramp and allow for the next block to redevelop...

[Nick]

There's a big decal-type sign for this up on the existing building at the corner of Washington and 3rd Avenue, but they didn't splurge for fancier renderings than what we've already seen. Hope this one ends up working out!

[Bakken2016]

There's a big decal-type sign for this up on the existing building at the corner of Washington and 3rd Avenue, but they didn't splurge for fancier renderings than what we've already seen. Hope this one ends up working out!

I grabbed a photo of the decal to share.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[alexschief]

New renderings and a new brand name (Washington Yards) for this project: https://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/ ... ffice.html

The current plan seems to be three buildings; one half-block office building facing Washington, one tall market rate housing tower on the southern corner (3rd Ave and 3rd Street) and one mid-rise affordable housing building on the western corner (2nd Ave and 3rd Street). In terms of the view from the Stone Arch Bridge, I would've liked the entire site plan to be rotated 90 degrees clockwise, but alas. The renderings so far show an exciting amount of architectural ambition, but I think most people on this page know to take the designs and heights with a grain of salt. I suspect the only thing that's unlikely to change from what we're seeing here is the mix of uses and their general placements.

This is another big test of the "flight to quality" thesis for office space. To fill this space (and compete with Hines' proposal at 800 Marquette, which I assume is also still gauging the market's interest for new office) they will need to poach tenants from other downtown spaces. But I also think at some point we are going to need to see proof of concept that new downtown offices can draw a big fish back from the suburbs. Otherwise I'm skeptical about how likely this project or the Hines project are to move forward.

One other note: this site already contains a huge cavern, so expect many floors of parking below. It's my hope that at least some of the parking space can be reserved as a Metro Transit layover facility to replace the one in the Gateway Ramp, and that the amount of parking added by this project can be used to justify a redevelopment of the Gateway Ramp in future years. I've seen no evidence that Sherman is thinking along those lines, but I'm also totally convinced that it is a great idea and I hope that in the coming years, as this project becomes more fleshed out, that we will see some interest.

[twincitizen]

It is a great idea to move the transit layover here from Gateway Ramp, but I suspect it won't happen because neither Metro Transit nor the City have asked for that.

[BigIdeasGuy]

1/4 baked idea, the city/Metro Transit cuts a deal with Sherman to use this parking ramp on this block for a layover facility/what ever else they need and in exchange Sherman get 1st right of refusal on the Gateway Ramp Block at a discounted rate

[alexschief]

It is a great idea to move the transit layover here from Gateway Ramp, but I suspect it won't happen because neither Metro Transit nor the City have asked for that.

We don't know what they have or haven't asked for, or whether they have even considered it. Would Metro Transit turn down a brand-new built-to-suit layover facility that's two blocks closer to Marq2? I doubt it.

And does Sherman necessarily need a carrot with the Gateway Ramp to do this? They'd make more money pre-leasing the underground space. That's guaranteed long-term occupancy.

[mattaudio]

If it counts for anything, the idea to move the bus facility from Gateway to this project was brought up to some local WF folks involved with the deal who ensured me the concept would get to Sherman and others. But this was now a few years ago and I can prod again.

[MNdible]

Since we're all repeating ourselves, it's worth noting that introducing something the size of a city bus into an underground garage complicates all sort of things with the design and engineering of the space. It's certainly achievable, but it may be viewed as an extra complication to the project that isn't worth it to Sherman.

[mattaudio]

Yes, but the underground space is a giant loading dock for armored trucks, not just passenger vehicle parking.

[TroyGBiv]

I think they are actually planning to remove all of the underground parking structure - they had already said they needed to do that since the subterranean ceiling heights were too high and the building foundations would require too much demolition to save any part of the existing basement levels,

[twincitizen]

Continuing a conversation from the O2 project thread:

Hoping they can get moving on Harmonia soon, though I fear that with *waves hands* everything happening right now they're just going to sell the old data center to someone who wants to turn it back into a data center.

I had heard (barber gossip) that there had been an offer to do just that

Sherman paid just $6.4 million for the data center back in 2022. At that price, the City should seriously buy it and hold the property. That's a fraction of what they've spent on the Kmart site (at least $15mil so far). And now the City can tap the same source of funds that they've been using for the Kmart site acquisitions since they vastly expanded the area of the "Nicollet Value Capture District" last year: https://lims.minneapolismn.gov/Download ... %20Map.pdf

[Nick]

I noticed this morning that there does appear to be an orange placard on the front door.

[thespeedmccool]

I noticed this morning that there does appear to be an orange placard on the front door.

I walked by and it seems like it's just part of the city's effort to replace old water meters. The land owner hasn't responded to the city's request to replace the meter.