Xcel Energy Center

[MNdible]

I think that's a great summary of the situation.

You hint at this, but the biggest problem with Target Center is that it's fundamentally the wrong shape, and that's unfixable. There are too few seats in the lower bowl, and too many in the upper bowl. The concourses are undersized, there aren't enough restrooms or concessions. The sightlines from the upper bowl are problematic. These are all problems that a renovation can't solve. It's just a bad arena.

If we are going to have two arenas, I think it would be interesting to look at making Target Center explicitly for basketball. My understanding is that the Target Center arena dimensions were compromised so that it could also host hockey, something that it has only very rarely done, along with an occasional Disney on Ice show. The difference in size between a basketball court and a hockey rink is kind of stunning; a hockey rink is almost four times the size of a basketball court. Look at something like the new ($2b!!) Intuit Dome, and it's a pretty compelling viewing experience that's designed around basketball as the primary tenant.

[Mdcastle]

So, when we were building Target Center, did we realize we were building it wrong and that someone might want to unload a truck at it someday?

Also, since we've conceded sports arenas have about a 30 year service life, maybe we should start thinking about where to put the next Twins stadium

And since we seem to be worried about not having enough arenas for stuff why did we blow up the Met Center?

[thespeedmccool]

Also, since we've conceded sports arenas have about a 30 year service life, maybe we should start thinking about where to put the next Twins stadium

Twins recently agreed to a deal to stay at Target Field through 2059.

And honestly, this mindset is exactly what I mean when I talk about people who want Minneapolis to remain a mid-sized, unimportant city forever. Major metropolitan areas have professional sports teams and lots of venues. Entertainment venues have been government-funded for millennia.

We can afford separate Wild and Wolves stadiums, and we should. We can also afford to fund all the other progressive priorities on top of that, and cutting stadium funding isn't gonna suddenly butter up Republicans to expanding Medicaid.

[mplsjaromir]

Target Center was privately financed, the public writ large had minimal input on the design. Ultimately the city purchased the facility. Harv and Marv used a fitness club architect to design the arena, not surprisingly the firm never designed another one.

Met Center was insanely out of date for any type of revenue generation.

Modern retro ballparks seem to have a good shelf life. The only one replaced so far been the Rangers park in Arlington, because North Texas has become so hot that fans need air conditioning.

[BigIdeasGuy]

I'm doing this from memory so I might get details wrong but this is more or less the story of the TC. Harv & Marv, the original owners of the T-Wolves, made their money in health clubs and when they went to build the TC in the late 80's instead of an experienced sports architect they hired the same architect they used for their health clubs. That architect had never built an arena before. The TC cost roughly $104m to build and the city bought it at some point down the line. Anyway Harv & Marv, while undeniably wealthy, probably weren't worth enough to run a NBA team at that & that's why the team almost moved to New Orleans before Glen Taylor bought it at the last minute. Both the architect being new to sports and H & M being underfunded to own a NBA franchise is reflected in the TC, while functional that's about the best and worst thing you can say about the building. Others posts have got into the issues with the seating bowl layout, etc. that make the building less than ideal for basketball. So if you are looking to point finger Harv & Marv are exactly who you need point at.

It's also worth noting, just like most thing with the Wolves, has suffered from bad luck and worse timing. Within a few years few of the TC opening the entire way NBA/NHL arenas were deigned changed completely. Since then most of those mid 90's or later arenas have received at least 1 major overhaul since, like the TC. The transformation in design is less visible with arenas but very clear in the difference in Comiskey Park in Chicago & Camden Yards in Baltimore. Despite opening 1 year apart one venue is try get replaced and the other is still revered as one of the best in the majors.

Which brings me to the 30 year mark, that was general standard for how often they venues got replaced up until about the decade or so. Before that venues were built on the cheap and to host multiple things poorly and they almost universally sucked, they had no soul and no one really wanted to be there, see the Metrodome locally. But since, everything built mid 90's or later is getting heavily renovated, not unlike the X proposal (the one exception here is Philly which is more location related). Point being there are no signs, hints, smoke signals that a new Twins Stadium is even a glimmer in current or future ownerships eye. It will eventually need some money but the club has been great at putting a few million in to the building every off season to improve the building.

As for the Met Center, the alleged reason the North Stars left is because the state wouldn't give the team a $10m loan to renovate the building right after the TC was opened. Fast forward about 10 years and ~$187m and a new Xcel Energy Center stood where the old St. Paul Civic Center was. So basically the Met Center was blown up because it was what the Target Center is today & X replaced it which is where we stand today. So we've alway been a 2 venue town since the birth of the modern arena in the late 60's with MSG.