Target Field Station (the Hotel) & Target Field Station (the Station)

[Andrew_F]

Not sure if if this belongs in this thread but I feel like this idea is an ugly duckling with nowhere to go...

I think a Light Rail extension should be incorporated with the "Interchange" up to Broadway and Lyndale. Wouldn't be that far to go and I doubt it would cost that much to build. The Met Council extended the Hiawatha line to the Twins stadium for the Twins, and everyone talks about how revitalizing Broadway and North Minneapolis is really important and more people take transit to North than the Twins Stadium on a daily basis. Since the Bottineau line is going to be fleeing North Minneapolis on hwy 55, lets connect the "interchange" to Broadway! It could be a major transfer point for buses going North and Northeast and would connect the most transit users to the Central Corridor, South West Corridor and Bottineau. You could take a train from the hawthorn neighborhood and potentially end up in Bryn-mar or Harrison with only one transfer at the "interchange" or continue on to the U of M, Saint Paul, Lake Street, the Air Port or the Mall (better yet, you could take the light rail to Broadway and Lyndale!). And it wouldn't be politically risky either because that stretch of Lyndale has no houses that use it as their primary means of access for the front door. The station could be in the parking lot next to cub foods so it doesn't disrupt traffic at the intersection and could be a great base for future transit expansion into the northside whether it be light rail or street car. I know it would be a little late to tack this onto the construction but I think it would be some kind of magic bullet the city keeps talking about wanting to find.

Sorry, bit of a rant

I don't think this could be built as part of this project, but I think it would be a great idea if Bottineau gets delayed long-term. The problem I see with it is what's the through routing? What line do you propose this connects to?

[mattaudio]

Except for during large events, why would we want two services stopping at two different stations along the same line? This would be the first and most logical transfer point between the Bottineau section of the Green Line and the Southwest section of the Blue Line.

[mulad]

Yeah, hopefully they'll only use the second LRT platform area on event days.

[MSPtoMKE]

I also hope that the current light rail station turns into a special events only platform, and that in regular service, both Blue and Green lines use the new station platforms. That way there will be combined 5 minute service for people traveling within downtown. I don't see why they would need to have them stop at different platforms during regular service, the new station should be big enough, and it is more complex than necessary to have different lines serve different platforms. During games, there can be obvious signage showing where to queue for each line, but outside of that time, there will be a lot of people who simply won't read signs saying what lines stop where, assuming it to be the same as the other downtown stations where both lines stop at each station. You can simply close off the current platform when it is not in use.

[mattaudio]

MSPtoMKE you bring up a good point as well... with enhanced frequencies this would possibly serve as a shuttle between The Interchange and the downtown core... especially for commuters working east of Nicollet.

[writruth]

Minnpost has a story today describing The Interchange as our Grand Central Station, with it's groundbreaking scheduled for next Monday.

http://www.minnpost.com/cityscape/2012/ ... -then-some

[Lancestar2]

Minnpost has a story today describing The Interchange as our Grand Central Station, with it's groundbreaking scheduled for next Monday.

http://www.minnpost.com/cityscape/2012/ ... -then-some

http://www.minnpost.com/cityscape/2012/ ... -then-some

you those who are to lazy to... highlight the entire text, right click copy, click "New Tab", right click paste, and click go

[mattaudio]

I'm a big transit backer, but I hate to admit I agree with most of the criticism of this project...
-distance from CBD
-splitting LRT platforms to discourage blue/green transfers
-large outdoor plaza is not a place to gather half of the year in MN weather
-proximity to herc
-incompatibility with future buried LRT downtown
-limited heavy rail expansion options
-no plans for future through-routing of rail services from St. Paul towards the Staples Sub

Seems like the project is simply a way to gain space for post-game crowd and parked cars.

[Nick]

This project is good for what it is, but when people go around saying it's going to be anything like Grand Central Station, that's misleading.

[MN_Badger]

I'm a big transit backer, but I hate to admit I agree with most of the criticism of this project...
-distance from CBD
-splitting LRT platforms to discourage blue/green transfers
-large outdoor plaza is not a place to gather half of the year in MN weather
-proximity to herc
-incompatibility with future buried LRT downtown
-limited heavy rail expansion options
-no plans for future through-routing of rail services from St. Paul towards the Staples Sub

Seems like the project is simply a way to gain space for post-game crowd and parked cars.

I'm not sure that it's distance from the CBD is really that prohibitive - both Ogilvie and Union Stations are on the west side of the Chicago river and a solid 4 blocks from the center of the Loop, and people seem to do just fine with that.

[min-chi-cbus]

I'm a big transit backer, but I hate to admit I agree with most of the criticism of this project...
-distance from CBD
-splitting LRT platforms to discourage blue/green transfers
-large outdoor plaza is not a place to gather half of the year in MN weather
-proximity to herc
-incompatibility with future buried LRT downtown
-limited heavy rail expansion options
-no plans for future through-routing of rail services from St. Paul towards the Staples Sub

Seems like the project is simply a way to gain space for post-game crowd and parked cars.

These are legit concerns and I think that's part of the reason this proposal looks so myopic to me.....it just doesn't hedge for the future very well (at least not the future beyond 20-25 years). I don't know how things like Grand Central Station got funded back in the day but today it'd take a monumental effort to support and build something that progressive -- they have to work within the budget they are given.

[Andrew_F]

I'm not sure that it's distance from the CBD is really that prohibitive - both Ogilvie and Union Stations are on the west side of the Chicago river and a solid 4 blocks from the center of the Loop, and people seem to do just fine with that.

They're both still much much more in the middle of things than the Interchange will be. Keep in mind the Chicago's CBD is much larger than Minneapolis', and that the big streets for office are actually on the western half of the loop.

Even so, Union's lack of connectivity to the L, Ogilvie, and LaSalle is still a HUGE issue that affects hundreds of thousands of people every day and that the city has been seeking to solve for many years and will likely spend hundreds of millions on when they finally decide on a solution.

[MSPtoMKE]

Of course it would be wonderful to have the intermodal station in a more central location that where it is, but where would you put it? Without a very expensive tunnel, I really can't think of a better location. Even the old Great Northern and Milwaukee Road Depots were a little out of the way, especially now that the center of downtown has drifted to the south. Train stations are almost always at the periphery of downtown cores. Cities often need to grow up around their stations.
I don't think we have any indication that they plan on having each line stop at a different station, so I think we can withhold judgement on that.
I don't know why it would be any more incompatible with (as far as I know unplanned) future underground light rail than any of the other existing light rail stations.
I do think it is wishful thinking that the new plaza will be heavily utilized, and it certainly is a stretch to call this our Grand Central Station, but we have to start somewhere. Heavy rail expansion space is also a concern, but there is room for at least some expansion.

[tabletop]

I don't think this could be built as part of this project, but I think it would be a great idea if Bottineau gets delayed long-term. The problem I see with it is what's the through routing? What line do you propose this connects to?

Have it be an extension of the Hiawatha line, or the Central Corridor trains that don't continue on the South West corridor. I doubt they would be running headways of 7-10 minutes on the South West or Bottineau all day and night, send every other train up to Broadway. It would make great utilization of the Interchange as a transfer point and allow for consistent service from Hiawatha and Central.

[mnmike]

I am sure this has been mentioned...but what is the timeline on this?

[mulad]

2014 for the new light-rail platforms, roughly coinciding with the Central Corridor opening (though I'm doubtful it'll quite get finished by the time that's running). Who knows about Phase 2, though... I'm sure they'll try to get things timed so it will be operating by the time the next commuter or intercity service starts running to Minneapolis, but the timelines for those are also pretty fuzzy. At this point I'm guessing 2015 to 2018, but it's hard to say -- and the whole big superstructure (the big glass building, or whatever it turns out to be) might not all get done at once, either.

[mullen]

here's the firm designing the interchange.
http://www.eekarchitects.com/

[MNdible]

Well, I'm sure glad they hired a firm from New York City to take care of this. There sure aren't any local firms that could have handled a project like this.

[Nathan]

I read yesterday that they are breaking ground on Monday!

[mullen]

the project management/construction is knutson who headquarter in st louis park. that local enough for you?