Green Line Extension - Southwest LRT

[Ubermoose]

It would take a huge miscalculation to suddenly make 3C the less expensive option.

You mean like if there was a typo that underestimated the cost of co-location by $100 million?

That certainly has been an issue all along with this relocation. The Met Council has changed financials and requirements enough to make anyone think this is a shady deal. They changed the figures for the necessary width of the corridor for colocation at the meeting revealing the DEIS which negated all of the engineering work. When people started pointing out how much cheaper colocation was, then, poof, it's $100,000,000 cheaper. It's as though someones paws were greased a long time ago and they thought they would just be able to push it through without anyone noticing.

[David Greene]

They changed the figures for the necessary width of the corridor for colocation at the meeting revealing the DEIS which negated all of the engineering work.

What are you referring to here? The only number I saw corrected was along the Spanish immersion school in the relocation scenario. They surveyed the corridor and found it to be a bit narrower than expected. This is a normal part of the engineering work.

Are you talking about the 25' clearance requirement for freight? That is a suggested width for safety. There's not much to do about that.

There was no engineering work to negate. The project is in preliminary engineering. The engineering work is just starting.

[UptownSport]

Read his link

[Ubermoose]

What are you referring to here? The only number I saw corrected was along the Spanish immersion school in the relocation scenario. They surveyed the corridor and found it to be a bit narrower than expected. This is a normal part of the engineering work.

I was referring to the pinchpoint at Cedar Lake Road. It is spelled out better on this link. http://www.safetyinthepark.com/co-location.html

[mulad]

New Southwest LRT newsletter -- "Extending Tracks" (vs. "Making Tracks" for CCLRT). Some talk about the colocation/relocation issue (public open houses June 13th) and potential OMF locations (now narrowed to 7 options).

http://content.govdelivery.com/accounts ... ins/7e07ed

[UptownSport]

Letter published in Strib;
reposted here as it's certainly Germain:

Star had a transit letter:

LIGHT RAIL

Dense areas need transit the most

I’m shocked that both proposed light-rail lines take pains to avoid the metro’s densest areas. The Southwest proposal bypasses south Minneapolis, jetting past Uptown on a bicycle trail. The Northwest proposal goes straight west to serve a golf course in the middle of a vast park, avoiding north Minneapolis. Buses to these areas are overloaded. Why are we spending hundreds upon hundreds of millions to build rail bypassing most of our citizens?

THEODORE HARMON, Minneapolis

http://www.startribune.com/opinion/lett ... 48761.html

[David Greene]

As for the 21st station, what's so bad about it, really? I know that some vocal people in the neighborhood don't want it due to "those people" coming in.

I need to correct this. I've heard this sentiment expressed a few times, not always in reference to the 21st street station but from the same 1-2 people in the surrounding neighborhoods.

I want to make clear that this is *not* even close to a common sentiment I've heard expressed. It's been expressed, but by a very small minority of people.

There are safety concerns with Hidden Beach and past drug/disturbance issues there. People are concerned the station could exacerbate the problem. I am hopeful the station will make the area more accessible and improve its safety.

There are also concerns from homeowners on the dead-end of 21st street west of the tracks. I believe they're concerned about emergency vehicle access.

I think this station is a big asset to the line as it brings a part of the park system that's been under the radar out into the public mind.

[mattaudio]

My sole critique of the 21st St Station is that it would likely represent eight figures of cost to serve a couple hundred riders a day (at best). I'd rather see investment in transit stations in places where there's actually transit riders.

[twincitizen]

^Exactly. Even though 21st St Station would be the cheapest on the line, I'd still like to see it cancelled and the dollars spread around to making the other, more challenging Minneapolis stations more accessible. West Lake and Penn are going to be among the most expensive, but have no chance of being dropped. Perhaps the project will have to drop a few parking ramps to make budget. Speaking of which, does this project even have a set budget yet? It was $1.1, 1.2, now 1.3B is the figure I see published. When does that number get nailed down? After preliminary engineering (going on now)?

[MNdible]

My sole critique of the 21st St Station is that it would likely represent eight figures of cost to serve a couple hundred riders a day (at best). I'd rather see investment in transit stations in places where there's actually transit riders.

In this regards, it's likely to serve more riders at a lower cost than almost every station on the Northstar.

[mattaudio]

Very true, and the reason why I have been critical of Northstar as well.

[RailBaronYarr]

There are safety concerns with Hidden Beach and past drug/disturbance issues there. People are concerned the station could exacerbate the problem. I am hopeful the station will make the area more accessible and improve its safety.

In this regard, I truly feel that transit = crime is far overblown to the point that people believe there exists a super strong correlation. Especially in the suburbs. There was an article that discussed it: http://www.theatlanticcities.com/commut ... inal/4752/

My take is that so much recent research has shown that transit-accessible housing continues to be more and more desirable, very much limiting the crime factor. Proper lighting, access, and design around stations (ie eyes on street principle) help even futher.

[web]

Hidden Beach has been a "hidden beach" since before I knew about it in the late 70s.........Why would a lightrail station exacerbate the problem??? I seriously doubt kids going swimming there would even use lrt

[twincitizen]

A few more station open houses:

TODAY
All St. Louis Park stations – June 20, 4:30-7 p.m., Beth El Synagogue, 5224 W. 26th St., St. Louis Park.

NEXT WEEK
All Minneapolis Stations: – June 24, 4:30-7 p.m., Kenwood Community Center, 2101 Franklin Ave. W, Minneapolis.
All Eden Prairie stations – June 26, 4:30-7 p.m., Eden Prairie City Center, 8080 Mitchell Road, Eden Prairie.

http://finance-commerce.com/transit/201 ... locations/

[UptownSport]

I'd ask if crime / or 'safety concerns' are a legitimate reason to not build a line or a station-
Let just say for sake of argument that more people do do whatever they're concerned about-
does this justify not building the station or the line???

I don't think it's that much of a stretch to say that having the beach open promotes drug use or nude bathing (it was known as bare-a$$ed beach when I was young). ergo, we should close the beach altogether if there's already safety concerns.

I think a better question (mattaudio) is whether the stop (or line itself- Uptownsport) has merit- And then deal with the consequences if the answer is 'yes.'

[cowboyjones]

My sole critique of the 21st St Station is that it would likely represent eight figures of cost to serve a couple hundred riders a day (at best). I'd rather see investment in transit stations in places where there's actually transit riders.

I think the reason they are really working on these lines in the first place is to try to attract new people to public transit, rather than cannibalizing their already developed infrastructures. On a side note, I think the best way to do that with this line is to have luxury cars that are only accessible with a month-long pass or the like.

[orangevening]

More I read into this line the more I fear the bike trail (burham/kenilworth) is in trouble. It's the cheapest option for freight relocation and unfortunately that is the usual deciding factor. Hope the "all powerful" bike lobby (although this isn't NYC ) puts their weight behind the other options.

[David Greene]

There shouldn't be any issue with the bike trail. There's room for all three at grade.

[twincitizen]

Before or after you remove the townhouses? The portion of Kenilworth south of Burnham is really narrow. North of that I would tend to agree with you.

I used to be a co-locate proponent, but MNdible changed my mind with the simple statement that it's really redundant having two lightly used freight rail corridors running basically parallel to each other only a mile apart.

If done right, with an eye toward the end result, the freight relocation/reroute should positively impact that area of SLP and set it up for future economic growth. Buildings and homes will be lost, but we need to have a longer-term view than the # of people affected in 2015-6. Same story goes for not routing Bottineau down Penn-- way to much obsession over the impact on today, when we're planning something that will be around for several decades.

[David Greene]

The townhomes are taken no matter what in a colocation scenario, so yes, there is room.

I can't see how relocation will be financially feasible. Unless somehow building a brand new wye complete with large ramp for huge trains, realigning an existing rail corridor and raising it several feet is somehow not ridiculously expensive.

Granted, I'm no expert. We should have the numbers by end of July.