Vikings Stadium Miscellaneous Discussion

[Viktor Vaughn]

Right, and your conclusion was the public perception is different because of "unfair bias against the Wilfs."

[MNdible]

Because we're a bunch of anti-semites.

[Didier]

Yes. Hating the Wilfs for being greedy but not hating the Pohlads for the same reason is entirely hypocritical.

[Viktor Vaughn]

I don't hate either family. I do think both families used their wealth-bought political influence to acquire more wealth at the expense of others, which isn't admirable, but i tend to blame the politicians who go along with these scemes rather than the rent-seekers themselves.

Still though, Target Field wasn't nearly as terrible for taxpayers. Not that I supported it then or now. It's just that the public cost was lower and the payback is higher due to the number of games, among other reasons.

[John21]

Yes. Hating the Wilfs for being greedy but not hating the Pohlads for the same reason is entirely hypocritical.

When did people stop hating the Pohlads? You must not know any Twins fans.

[ECtransplant]

Forgive my ignorance, but why does a football stadium need to cost so much more than a baseball stadium?

[Silophant]

I don't know about all the factors that go into it, but I bet the biggest one is that this stadium will have a roof, whereas Target Field is open-air. Also, Target Field seats 40,000, while this stadium will, I believe, seat 80,000. Not sure if that explains it costing twice as much, but that's part of it.

[Wedgeguy]

You figure that Target Field would fit into the Metrodome with plenty of room to space. The new FB stadium with be a huge bowl structure expect there the doors are Full height seating in 96% of the bowl, where Target Field is 2 arms with some smaller seating to finish of the circle. Major seating on 55% of that structures bowl. Also the Target Field had really little excavation because the main concourse level was build up so that it reached the raised streets and light rail. Not much dirt had to be hauled in or out compared to the new stadium. The playing field was pretty much at ground level.

[moda253]

Having a town with 4 major sports teams

Let me see, there's the Lynx, the Gophers women's hockey team, the Gophers men's hockey team, but I can't think of our fourth major sports team. Wait, did the Twins make it to a playoff of some sort this decade?

Ok it's true that our sports are bad bad bad right now. But they all still draw very well. Ok not so much the Twolves but things are looking up there this year.

[moda253]

Arguing about somthing that isn't goiing to change seems pointless. The thing is getting built no matter what. It always was getting built no matter what. Bemoaning that is pointless where discussion should be centered around what is going to happen with this stadium. Now even I a stadium supporter am sort of pissed at the apparent cutting of corners instead of Wilf covering the cost overruns like he agreed to do. But at this stage of the game it's still too early to tell what will make it in and what won't.

[Didier]

Again, there was an agreed upon budget and the parties are in the process of fitting the costs together now. The Wilfs have not cut any corners at this point nor has the process reached the stage where they would pony up extra money.

[mullen]

same thing happened with target field and with every project of this ilk in the world. nothing new here. it does appear the team has made a commitment for that extra few million to keep the scoreboard to it's liking, etc. but again from the stories on this issue they would get that money back from the contingency fund so it's once again a loan situation. although this scenario is rather vague at this point also.

perhaps they'll be like the twins and just pay for upgrades that don't fall within the budget and not expect to paid back.
i hope this is how this plays out. team is taking a public relations hit with the seat license issue and it's dreadful on the field performance this season. make that commitment to make this a world class building.

[min-chi-cbus]

You just wait until Josh Freeman turns this ship around for us, starting this weekend!

[Mdcastle]

I'm not sure it's a bad deal for *all* the taxpayers. Since I don't smoke, spend money in the city limits of Minneapolis, or gamble, it seems the Vikings stadium deal is actually a better deal for me than the Twin stadium, where there's a tax on everything in Hennepin County (Although I do some, but not all, of my shopping south of the river). The big question mark is if closing the corporate tax loophole will cause consumer prices to go up.

[nordeast homer]

I remember how excited I was when the dome was built. It was such an improvement over the Met. I remember that excitement lasting for two visits. The first visit was the wow factor, the second visit was figuring how bad they had cut corners in that place, and the fact that it was such a stale environment. I cannot wait for this building to go. In the same breath, I am hopeful that this new building will be that much better than the dome. Even if they have to cut some corners here or there it will still be leaps and bounds above the current venue. The number of corridors, vendor stations, restrooms, and even the size of the concourses should lend itself to a much better experience. The amount of natural light in this new stadium should change the atmosphere taking away some of the blah effect the dome has.
The current state of the Vikings success (or lack of) makes me that much more anxious for the season to end so we can get this thing started!

[Didier]

I sometimes wonder if the Vikings stadium might be a turning point, or at least the start of a turning point, in this trend. All of these deals are unpopular, but this one is becoming exceedingly unpopular when you add in the total cost, the percentage that the Wilfs are paying, the complete failure of a state funding plan (pull tabs), and the Wilf family's negative public image, which was already somewhat low before the racketeering charges.

Here's Pittsburgh Magazine, of all places, writing about our situation.

http://www.pittsburghmagazine.com/Best- ... ollar-Con/

[Viktor Vaughn]

I sometimes wonder if the Vikings stadium might be a turning point, or at least the start of a turning point, in this trend.

Agreed. This is one reason this whole deal has been so frustrating. We could have been among the first to stand up for ourselves and back down the bullies. Instead we are likley to end up among the last to be hustled, or "snowed", as the Pittsburgh article put it. And damn, do we ever look like rubes in that article. The image of Larry Spooner bowing down to Zygi really says it all.

The state of Minnesota is on the hook for $348 million, while the city of Minneapolis kick in $150 million via the highest downtown sales tax in the country (hope you like $9 Coors Lights). This comes at a time when more than half of Minneapolis public schools are facing budget cuts.

While getting snowed by the Wilfs hurts the pride of a supposedly progressive city, the above quote really sums up the lasting damage of this deal. Minneapolis has completely spoken for it's sales tax, hotel tax, and downtown food and liquor tax through 2042. We have no margin. Want to devote a .5% sales tax to develop some urban transit corridors that regional government is neglecting? Too bad, we've already got the highest downtown sales tax in the nation. One could argue Target Field's .15% sales tax is a rounding error, but that doesn't apply to the Vikings Stadium. Those taxes are drastic enough that they will be inflicting economic damage on this city long after the shine has worn off the new stadium.

[Mdcastle]

It's interesting that the dollars are tied up until 2042, considering that at both the Met Stadium and the Metrodome the Vikings, Twins, (and Gophers at the Metrodome) only lasted 15 years or so before crying for new stadiums. With that track record we'll have three new stadiums by the time this one is paid for.

[Didier]

It's pretty obvious that the standard of stadiums being built today is much different than the cheap multi-use stadiums of the 1970s and 1980s. The teams also have leases that require then to stay for 30 years, etc. You don't have to worry about the Vikings demanding a new stadium in 2024.

[Mdcastle]

Maybe you're right, but did anyone building the Met Stadium or the Metrodome think they were building a structure that teams would only be happy with only 15 years (although maybe they were meant to be temporary, I wasn't old enough to recall discussions about building them so someone correct me if I'm wrong) And we're thinking yet again they have their "forever homes". Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me, Fool me thrice-- we'll see, shame on the entire region? I haven't been to a sporting event in about 10 years , but for a Twins game and Vikings game the only negative that I recall is them being located downtown and having to drive around looking for a parking space and then walk by beggers and scalpers.

I really hope I'm wrong and the Vikings, Twins, and Gophers are done crying and throwing temper tantrums because mama won't buy them a new stadium for a while, but I'm not sure. Maybe all the other teams will build new stadiums and the Vikings will again have fewer luxury suites than what a "peoples stadium" should have, or the Twins and Gophers decide they don't like it in the rain. And maybe with the new parking, skyways, parks and development downtown east will become a nice place to see a game, but that's not my current impression from my decade old trips there. It's been that long since I've been on foot in the area.