Buses vs Rail and Cars vs Transit

[helsinki]

Thanks for the thorough response! It's an interesting contrast with MSP and the Fiscal Disparities Act.

[Tcmetro]

"Village" is a legal term for a type of municipality in Illinois. It isn't being used as a marketing term in this case.

[twincitizen]

http://www.theatlanticcities.com/commut ... ling/8564/

My commuting choices — just like everyone's — are the sum of the advantages of one transportation mode weighed against the downsides of all other options. Or, more succinctly: my feelings about the bus are mediated by what I'm thinking about my car.

[twincitizen]

On The Daily Circuit Today: Are streets too inviting to cars?
Guests:
Daniel Piatkowski: Postdoctoral research associate at the University of Colorado-Denver
Bill Lindeke: Urban geographer, writer and editor

Some urban experts think it's time to reconsider the way we use our streets. As they exist today in most U.S. cities, the roads are primarily — if not solely — for cars. Is it time to rethink that? Might we, for example, want to limit parking to one side year-round?

http://www.mprnews.org/story/2014/04/15 ... ts?from=dc

[Anondson]

A cancelled inner city rail line. Funds diverted to suburban roads. Now a civil rights race discrimination lawsuit.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015 ... plnews_d-1

[David Greene]

Knew it. Red Line. Stops for Us used it as an example of community benefits agreements and other such things to ensure transit investments serve communities.

Of course a Republican governor would cancel it.

[froggie]

Funds diverted to rural roads.

FTFY, since I have some knowledge of the situation in Maryland.

[Anondson]

Well, I just took from the subhead, which stated suburban roads. Though the article itself did clarify suburban and rural roads. Does you knowledge of the situation give us a break down on the ratio of rural vs. suburban in the total share?

[froggie]

Don't recall offhand. Hogan spread the money (which IIRC amounted to about $800M) around the state a bit. There were some suburban projects funded, but also some high-profile (and expensive) projects on the Eastern Shore. What was very notable was that Baltimore County (the suburban county that surrounds the city) didn't get a dime.

Greater Greater Washington (DC-area urbanist blog) ran an article on it.

[J2K]

Why does everyone on this board hate parking ramps so much? I get the obvious reasons due to their appearance, but they are needed. I mean, the people using them are from out of town and are downtown spending money. Does Minneapolis not want the sales tax and parking revenue from out of towners? I don't get it. There should be good parking options to get more people to go downtown to spend money . Not everyone is going to ride the light rail due to time constraints - the thing really is just too damn slow with it stopping at every single station along the way, not to mention at every stop light when it's downtown. I hate surface parking as much as the next guy, but also understand the need for parking ramps and don't think they should go away. Please don't destroy me for defending parking ramps...

[amiller92]

Why does everyone on this board hate parking ramps so much?

Because they are dead spots in the fabric of the city. They make the city worse for residents and repel visitors. They aren't even for visitors - if they were, we're way, way over capacity. They are car storage for commuters. We want commuters, but we like them even more when they commute using transit or on a bike or on foot.

There should be good parking options to get more people to go downtown to spend money .

We should be done designing downtown for suburbanites. They don't come. Just look at how many opening parking spaces there are during evenings and weekends.

I hate surface parking as much as the next guy, but also understand the need for parking ramps and don't think they should go away.

Stand-alone ramps in the downtown core should go away. Ramps that are park of mixed-use facilities are tolerable, but ideally, a structured parking should be underground and/or at the edge of downtown.

[PhilmerPhil]

I'll quote myself quoting myself: https://forum.streets.mn/viewtopic.php?f ... 140#p44763

[HiawathaGuy]

I'll quote myself quoting myself: https://forum.streets.mn/viewtopic.php?f ... 140#p44763

I don't think you'll find anyone who would disagree that it would be great if Minneapolis felt more like Amsterdam. The problem: we will never be Amsterdam, OR Europe! I'm all for trying to make our city more walkable, but there's a reality of automobile usage in this country that you just can't ignore, because you don't like it. Things will change - and hopefully people will start driving less and less. But until there's a REAL reason to not drive, or drive less... people won't. That's very, very, very clear.

So I'm not sure why amiller92 needs to make J2K feel bad for wanting us to have appropriate parking for the foreseeable real future? I'm not even sure J2K was suggesting wanting new single-use ramps to be built. But for as long as I can personally see, Minneapolis will continue to be the power hub of business, and suburban people will park downtown for work - if they choose. Sure we can add more transit options - but people will still want to drive and park, even with gas price increases. So this notion that the city shouldn't take that into consideration, because of this ideal to be "more like Europe" seems really strange to me.

Things will have to dramatically shift, at a local/state/national level before anything changes with regards to how people drive. Not that that can't or won't happen - it's just not something I see happening anytime soon. So I think J2K's question was very fair - and one that he didn't deserve to be shamed for.

[editcostarica]

The Victory Ramp in downtown St Paul is a good example of a mixed-use ramp. From south to north, there's a little bodega, ramp entrance, small print shop, ramp exit, and a restaurant. It's the only ramp around that I find doesn't completely suck the life out of the block.

[mattaudio]

Sounds like someone doesn't know the history of Amsterdam.

[amiller92]

I'm all for trying to make our city more walkable, but there's a reality of automobile usage in this country that you just can't ignore, because you don't like it.

No, but we need to pay significantly less attention to it if we want downtown to be a place that attracts people. You can't both have parking everywhere and places people want to spend time.

Things will change - and hopefully people will start driving less and less.

I don't have any faith that people are going to start driving less. But that doesn't mean we need to encourage them to drive immediately through downtown.

But until there's a REAL reason to not drive, or drive less... people won't.

You mean like parking is less readily available/cheap?

So I'm not sure why amiller92 needs to make J2K feel bad for wanting us to have appropriate parking for the foreseeable real future?

I wasn't trying to make anyone feel bad. If J2K feels that way, then I apologize.

But for as long as I can personally see, Minneapolis will continue to be the power hub of business

Right. Which is why we don't need to continue to try to bend over backward for suburban commuters. It's not easy driving and parking that brings business downtown. It's all the other stuff.

So this notion that the city shouldn't take that into consideration, because of this ideal to be "more like Europe" seems really strange to me.

How about so that we can make downtown a more attractive place to live, work, shop, and spend time? Which may actually attract more visitors than a city optimized for car throughput/storage.

[go4guy]

People commuting from the suburbs aren't going to take away 2 hours with their family each day so they can ride the bus downtown instead of driving. Not gonna happen.

With regards to Rochester, the ramps they do have are always filled. During the week, nights, weekends. They are needed, otherwise people wouldn't have anywhere to park.

[grant1simons2]

Tens of thousands already take the bus to the suburbs..

https://streets.mn/2015/12/04/the-278-st ... t-transit/

[go4guy]

Completely agree. If i was single and worked downtown, i would be more likely to use the bus. But if I had a wife and kids at home, I would not want to waste that extra time on a bus when I could be with my family.

My wife and I go out to eat a lot in downtown Rochester. It is simple and easy to park in a ramp near the bars and restaurants. If we had to park 5 blocks away or take a bus, you can bet we would stay home instead.

[grant1simons2]

If we had to park 5 blocks away or take a bus, you can bet we would stay home instead.

I'm sorry to hear that.