Century Plaza / Convention Hotel rumoring (archive)

[Tcmetro]

What a shame about the copper

[MNdible]

The interior rehab looks great, but once again, the exterior facade should be updated a bit ( but retaining the patina copper detailing from the 1960's). That's the same problem I had with the renovation of the Hyatt: nothing done to the exterior to update the look. Cheapskates!

Their paying customers are on the inside, not the outside.

[Nathan]

Admittedly the most work needs to be done inside to be a good service to the customer, but the Hotel needs curb appeal to impress the guest upon arrival. The metal detail work there is the only thing at street level that really gives this building some appeal and character.

[MNdible]

Unconventional wisdom: Mayor sees ‘terrible strategy’ in county’s hotel plan
Posted: 7:30 am Thu, September 13, 2012

Hennepin County has revived talk of building a 1,000-room hotel near the Minneapolis Convention Center with its study of an adjacent, county-owned site. But Minneapolis Mayor R.T. Rybak doesn’t feel very hospitable about the idea.

From F&C, behind the paywall.

[Nathan]

Unconventional wisdom: Mayor sees ‘terrible strategy’ in county’s hotel plan
Posted: 7:30 am Thu, September 13, 2012

Hennepin County has revived talk of building a 1,000-room hotel near the Minneapolis Convention Center with its study of an adjacent, county-owned site. But Minneapolis Mayor R.T. Rybak doesn’t feel very hospitable about the idea.

From F&C, behind the paywall.

Reason to love RT # 1,263...

[mullen]

he's right it's a waste and unncesseary. if it's such a great idea a private developer would build a hotel.

[John]

The interior rehab looks great, but once again, the exterior facade should be updated a bit ( but retaining the patina copper detailing from the 1960's). That's the same problem I had with the renovation of the Hyatt: nothing done to the exterior to update the look. Cheapskates!

Their paying customers are on the inside, not the outside.

Yes, and we must remember: we are not New York or San Francisco where most older hotels are upgraded to include a renovation of both the exterior as well as the interior. This is provincial Minneapolis, so we wouldn't dare expect a hotel owner to be that extravagant!

[John]

he's right it's a waste and unncesseary. if it's such a great idea a private developer would build a hotel.

But a private developer would be building a hotel on this site! This would not be owned by the county or the city...lol. Look, the main reason this site has potential is due its proximity to the Convention Center.The county would also make money off the sale of this building. Currently , there are many cities building large scale convention center hotels because it attracts business. People want direct access to the convention facilities. If Minneapolis wants to remain competitive on a national level, building a large hotel connected to the convention center would make us more attractive for larger conventions which may now bypass us. I don't mean to be too critical, but I think people here need to have a wider view of Minneapolis as a city that relates to other urban areas on a national and international scale. This city is not just Lake Wobegon anymore.

[Didier]

The last time I was in San Francisco I stayed in a beautiful, nice hotel with an uglier cement exterior than anything we have here. Those provincial bastards!

[MNdible]

Yes, and we must remember: we are not New York or San Francisco where most older hotels are upgraded to include a renovation of both the exterior as well as the interior. This is provincial Minneapolis, so we wouldn't dare expect a hotel owner to be that extravagant!

It must be delightful to live in a world where there are no economic realities and where developers spend money without regard to whether or not it's a wise investment.

This isn't a New York vs. Minneapolis thing. The same rules apply there as well as they do here. Developers in New York also don't spend money on things that won't demonstrably increase their bottom line, unless you're able to find the rare one that's driven by ego rather than profit.

I'm sure somebody will point to an example where it happened, once, where a developer spent millions of their own dollars recladding a functional but otherwise unremarkable hotel exterior. Just because it happened somewhere once doesn't mean that we should be offended when it doesn't happen everytime here.

---

Also, I'll miss the copper. It's a bit surprising that they'd take it off now, since 60's mod seems to be back in fashion.

[mattaudio]

he's right it's a waste and unncesseary. if it's such a great idea a private developer would build a hotel.

But a private developer would be building a hotel on this site!

So then I assume a private developer is currently talking to the county about buying the block? They have an offer price? The county is considering it?

No? Why would a study be needed if this was truly being driven by a private developer.

[Nick]

No? Why would a study be needed if this was truly being driven by a private developer.

Repeat joke: Because if we didn't have all these studies, then what would all those people with $100,000 Master's degrees be doing all day?

[reeckman]

he's right it's a waste and unncesseary. if it's such a great idea a private developer would build a hotel.

But a private developer would be building a hotel on this site! This would not be owned by the county or the city...lol. Look, the main reason this site has potential is due its proximity to the Convention Center.The county would also make money off the sale of this building. Currently , there are many cities building large scale convention center hotels because it attracts business. People want direct access to the convention facilities. If Minneapolis wants to remain competitive on a national level, building a large hotel connected to the convention center would make us more attractive for larger conventions which may now bypass us. I don't mean to be too critical, but I think people here need to have a wider view of Minneapolis as a city that relates to other urban areas on a national and international scale. This city is not just Lake Wobegon anymore.

Attracting more business is good of course, but this location is still not people-oriented as is. As an exhibitor in a couple other cities convention centers, I really dislike the idea of attending and staying in an isolated, self contained venue surrounded by parking ramps, church, and the freeway. If the hotel plans include to also offer a ton of street level stuff e.g. a bakery, coffee, deli, bar and dinner place, that would be helpful.

Personal favorite is the Moscone Convention Center in San Fran, and staying in boutiquey hotels near Union square, Each year I can't wait to go to that trade show just for the environment. I don't usually have time to do ANY other sight seeing while there, too many obligations.

I guess I would hate for attendees to associate conventions in Minneapolis with working and staying in a somber corner of town with nothing to offer them, especially when it's cold. Dealing with drinking and driving after taking clients out, etc. Location definitely does play a role in people's decisions to attend a distant trade show or conference, regardless of booking agents booking it.

[John]

The last time I was in San Francisco I stayed in a beautiful, nice hotel with an uglier cement exterior than anything we have here. Those provincial bastards!

Well, what can I say? You did choose to stay in the hotel with the ugly cement exterior which is worse than anything we have here.

[Lancestar2]

No? Why would a study be needed if this was truly being driven by a private developer.

Repeat joke: Because if we didn't have all these studies, then what would all those people with $100,000 Master's degrees be doing all day?

Response joke: Mindlessly wondering the online blogs, forums, and other communities correcting grammar/mathematical equations, giving relationship advice and endlessly trolling children video's of them building with blocks and popsical sticks in a effort to find meaning in there lives?

[MumfordMoses]

he's right it's a waste and unncesseary. if it's such a great idea a private developer would build a hotel.

But a private developer would be building a hotel on this site! This would not be owned by the county or the city...lol. Look, the main reason this site has potential is due its proximity to the Convention Center.The county would also make money off the sale of this building. Currently , there are many cities building large scale convention center hotels because it attracts business. People want direct access to the convention facilities. If Minneapolis wants to remain competitive on a national level, building a large hotel connected to the convention center would make us more attractive for larger conventions which may now bypass us. I don't mean to be too critical, but I think people here need to have a wider view of Minneapolis as a city that relates to other urban areas on a national and international scale. This city is not just Lake Wobegon anymore.

Attracting more business is good of course, but this location is still not people-oriented as is. As an exhibitor in a couple other cities convention centers, I really dislike the idea of attending and staying in an isolated, self contained venue surrounded by parking ramps, church, and the freeway. If the hotel plans include to also offer a ton of street level stuff e.g. a bakery, coffee, deli, bar and dinner place, that would be helpful.

Personal favorite is the Moscone Convention Center in San Fran, and staying in boutiquey hotels near Union square, Each year I can't wait to go to that trade show just for the environment. I don't usually have time to do ANY other sight seeing while there, too many obligations.

I guess I would hate for attendees to associate conventions in Minneapolis with working and staying in a somber corner of town with nothing to offer them, especially when it's cold. Dealing with drinking and driving after taking clients out, etc. Location definitely does play a role in people's decisions to attend a distant trade show or conference, regardless of booking agents booking it.

Not necessarily buying your arguments. This location would hardly be 7 minute walk to south Nicollet Mall. The convention center gets regular, solid foot traffic. Also we need to see what the Viking's stadium design will bring, this location isn't too far from gameday if the blocks around the Mpls Armory are turned into viable public spaces that attract social events.

Mpls is not a tough city to walk by foot unless you're on the fringe of North Loop or the Guthrie District. I say this because I've simply walked, quite frequently, and even lived in much bigger cities. Mpls needs more mini-nodes & social clusters.

What would be vital is ensuring a 24/7 Skyway line connects from this proposed hotel via the Convention Center- the Hilton - AT&T, Foshay, Marquette 7th-8th Block, IDS, Macy's (simply measure of inserting pulldown gates), City Center, Block E Plan B, Target Center, etc.. Why this can't be done is beyond me.

The density needs to pickup in this area of downtown, the near vacant block west of Valspar, east of AT&T has been a miserable eyesore for years now. Perhaps this project will spur a necessary mini-boom in this area.

One thing is for certain, post Block E, much of Mpls' new projects have been pretty decent, but slow to develop, which is understandable considering the damn near depression of 06-09.

Things will come along.

[reeckman]

Mini-node a social cluster--yes! The economics don't support it today, but what about when/if we are always booked full in a huge new hotel at this location? Are the developers considering human factors of what is right next door? Most Convention Centers are surrounded with options right next door. Even Denver look great (better than I recall from 2005) now looking on a map.

A 7 minute walk with a 24/7 skyway option linking Nicollet Mall to a self contained Convention Center and huge hotel is very practical and doable, yes. But it is just so so indoor and does nothing to expand the downtown core or improve the atmosphere of Minneapolis for visitors or residents. It could be better!

The Mpls Convention Center already has an indoor selection for lunch/coffee etc, larger than I am used to seeing in other CCs. http://www.minneapolis.org/minneapolis- ... estaurants

Maybe I'm making inapporpriate suggestions--not sure if the 11th St area is zoned for this or if restaurants are conflict of interest with Convention Center concessions and tax proceeds. Are we depending on this being and remaining a self contained venue? ugh.

[mattaudio]

One thing that would help is if we had concentrated walking/urban streets going east-west across downtown, and north-south from Elliot Park to the new stadium site. Not that other streets should be hostile to pedestrians, but we could do something like the Nicollet Mall with two vehicle lanes where it is obvious that the street caters to pedestrians and visitors.

[woofner]

There's already lots of retail on 9th St, but it peters out by 2nd Ave, where it's mostly overwhelmed by corporate lobbies and parking lots. It's worth noting that 9th St has no function for through traffic, so there's even less reason to whine here about removing precious lanes for cars.

Is two blocks too far for conventioneers to walk? I doubt that 11th will ever have any retail east of Nicollet, unless Target does build on WCCO (and even then it's not guaranteed). 12th has more possibilities for retail, although it will still only be a smattering here and there between parking ramp access drives. Anyway 11th and 12th in this area will always be reserved for those poor marginalized motorists to access their shriveled little tiny freeway system.

[Lancestar2]

One thing that would help is if we had concentrated walking/urban streets going east-west across downtown, and north-south from Elliot Park to the new stadium site. Not that other streets should be hostile to pedestrians, but we could do something like the Nicollet Mall with two vehicle lanes where it is obvious that the street caters to pedestrians and visitors.

I do think that Washington Ave will be sort of a East West Nicollet mall given the major importance of it. once the Library park is built, the connection to the new and improved river front, the street car line on Washington, and finally the connection to the cedar lake bike trail and the hiawatha bike trail then the importance of Washington ave will be known

I remember you posting that pretty map about transit lines downtown and though it looked very nice for a long term plan however I think for the short term if a Nicollet Mall Street car line was built (which is spose to be the 1st line and segment of the line) then if they were to extend the Nicollet mall sidewalk by improving the design of the block East on grant (just the 1st block) and by putting up well lit signs and other elements that improved the walkability then I think it would be a fantastic route that would connect the Convention center to the Nicollet Mall.

For example maybe cutting out the middle turn lane and one East bound lane (or west bound though seems more traffic going that way) then it would be much more inviting to see a large sidewalk.

Actually as Im looking at the map I see that 13th street Also has a nice walkway to the Nicollet Mall! You know maybe if a resident of 3 years can't figure out the correct way to the convention center than maybe you might need a sign!

But still if a hotel is built here and the Street Car line is made (which would stop at grant not 13th) upgrades should be made here and would be enough to have a great transit route IMO