Mall of America - Bloomington

[EOst]

http://www.myfoxtwincities.com/story/27 ... of-america

As always, but especially here (seriously), don't read the comments.

[David Greene]

Anyone else going tomorrow?

[Snelbian]

I'm considering it.

[Chauncey87]

If your going for shopping your all good. However anyone protesting will be dealt with right away it seems.

"A protest planned for one of the busiest shopping days of the year at Mall of America has prompted mall officials to warn organizers that police will remove them if they show up."

http://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/n ... y-out.html

[Snelbian]

I look forward to watching them try and arrest the number of people expected.

[David Greene]

Oh man it was incredible! Thousands of people of all colors declaring that Black is beautiful and Black Lives Matter!

[TTT]

I was under the assumption for some reason that a demonstration like that was illegal at MOA.

[David Greene]

It might be illegal but it's just!

[acs]

Even though there were arrests made, when you look at our neighbor to the east you'll see that we're handling this 100x better and fairer.

[MinnMonkey]

I was under the assumption for some reason that a demonstration like that was illegal at MOA.

Correct me if I am wrong, but the protesting itself isn't illegal, but since it is private property (sorta, but that's a different topic) if you are doing something they don't approve of, they can ask you to leave. If you don't leave, they can have the police arrest you for trespassing.

[FISHMANPET]

Technically speaking, the Mall is privately owned space, so the Mall would have been within their legal right to declare all the protesters as trespassing and have them ejected/arrested or something. However from the point of view of trying to have a functional democracy in our modern built environment, there's some interesting points to be made. For one, the Mall has received plenty of public money so morally I'm not sure you could call it a 100% private place. But the larger point is that a shopping mall is a major public space in our society today, and the privatization of public space as it pertains to trying to limit speech is certainly a concern for the future of democracy.

I also don't think that everything legal is just or that everything unjust is illegal. Laws are written by man with all the flaws that entail.

[EOst]

As I mentioned on Twitter, this whole episode is an excellent reminder of how privatizing what was once the public sphere might have some unforeseen consequences. (Before someone jumps in: Obviously the Mall proper has never been public space, but the places where we used to shop and gather were.)

edit: FMP beat me to it

[go4guy]

Couldn't you argue that the mall has every right to look out for the best interest of its tenants and their customers? Having much needed business be impacted like this is not fair to the business owners. I'm thinking that is the main reason the mall acted the way they did. And it looks like the city of Bloomington agrees, as they are moving forward and pressing charges. I think the mall and Bloomington handled this well. The communicated with the organizers and let them know the mall is private property, and they have rules. They also gave them a very visable space across the street that is public where it is completely legal for a peaceful protest.

[Snelbian]

They also gave them an empty parking lot across a massive arterial road in MN winter that wouldn't inconvenience them and which is not theirs to offer anyway where it is completely legal for a peaceful protest.

Fixed that for you.

Sure, the mall was exercising rights to their own property. But let's not pretend that telling people they could protest just as effectively in an empty parking lot in the middle of winter, and expecting anybody at all to actually believe that, is somehow big of them.

[go4guy]

True, but they have every right to stop a group of people from inconveniencing their customers and costing their tenants a lot of money. They run a business.

[lordmoke]

Legal high ground and moral high ground are most definitely not the same thing.

There were zero injuries and no property damage. One could argue that the only difference between this and the thousands of people gathering to sing 'Clouds' is the way the mall handled it.

[Snelbian]

Yes, and? They exercised their rights. Poorly, and for the wrong reasons in the wrong cause, but legally. I don't think anybody is disagreeing with that simple statement of obvious fact. The argument many are making is that the mall exercised that right at the expense of social justice, despite a long history of welcoming rallies for issues that affect white people more than this one, and with an overblown show of force by mall security and the Bloomington PD. Legality is really, really not the point here.

I'm inconvenienced every time there's some ridiculous bushleague talk show setting up in that rotunda. Who do I sue?

[mplsjaromir]

The Boston Tea Party also inconvenienced shoppers and disrupted the business of hard working merchants. I am not certain but I do not believe it was government sanctioned.

Today the demonstration is seen as a not an act of a lawless mob, but a principled reaction to overbearing government agents.

[fehler]

Ten years ago, a political campaign, and shopping malls: http://articles.latimes.com/2003/dec/08/local/me-mall8

"At malls, Schwarzenegger can reaffirm his populist credentials -- the state Web site identifies him as "The People's Governor" -- by creating TV pictures of himself speaking to large crowds in a public space. At the same time, malls are legally private property, which allows his political team to control the look and feel of events -- and keep protesters off camera."

[RailBaronYarr]

So, as a side note to all the public v private space discussion, I've been trying for a while to find anything re: subsidies the mall has received over the years. We know about the $250m tax subsidies and a more indirect $40m infrastructure spend by Bloomington to support the mall's recent expansion. But I'm certain there were similar deals when the place opened up and can't find any data. Without resorting to stepping foot in the MNHS library where it seems there may be some legislative reports with finance details, does anyone have any info?..