Soccer Stadium in Minneapolis (cancelled)
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Re: Major League Soccer Stadium in Minnesota
Thread edited to reflect lack of concrete location. Also moved to "Anything Goes" for the time being since there is no "Twin Cities General" or anything like that.
At first glance, what is the urbanist preference on the two StP sites? Without really thinking it over too much, I give a slight edge to the Midway site.
The following sentence applies to any of the sites currently in contention: put the stadium right up against the freeway, in effect providing a buffer to the remainder of the property that you wish to see redeveloped into dense housing and commercial. I think it is unlikely you will see dense valuable development along the freeway perimeter, at least in most cases. There are definitely exceptions to that rule, like near 35W at the U, along 94 in Loring Park, and West End in SLP - but I don't see that necessarily playing out at either Sears or Midway, since there is so much land to develop overall.
And to parking concerns, I think (unfortunately) that either StP site would result in a parking ramp being built. The hope would be that the parking ramp could be shared with eventual adjacent development in a district parking scenario.
At first glance, what is the urbanist preference on the two StP sites? Without really thinking it over too much, I give a slight edge to the Midway site.
The following sentence applies to any of the sites currently in contention: put the stadium right up against the freeway, in effect providing a buffer to the remainder of the property that you wish to see redeveloped into dense housing and commercial. I think it is unlikely you will see dense valuable development along the freeway perimeter, at least in most cases. There are definitely exceptions to that rule, like near 35W at the U, along 94 in Loring Park, and West End in SLP - but I don't see that necessarily playing out at either Sears or Midway, since there is so much land to develop overall.
And to parking concerns, I think (unfortunately) that either StP site would result in a parking ramp being built. The hope would be that the parking ramp could be shared with eventual adjacent development in a district parking scenario.
Re: Major League Soccer Stadium in Minnesota
The existing plan for the midway area includes a district parking ramp and hotel and entertainment. A stadium would kind of be the cherry on top to get it going.
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Re: Major League Soccer Stadium in Minnesota
After thinking about things more, I think the Sears site would work better for fans arriving via Train. The Capital/Rice Street station isn't located in the middle of University, making it far easier to get on and off the trains without interacting with cars.
I just think that Snelling is already so congested at University and 94 that adding a venue that will hold >20,000+/- fans will make this location even worse. Whereas Rice & Marion Streets offer vehicles a lot more 'breathing room'.
I just think that Snelling is already so congested at University and 94 that adding a venue that will hold >20,000+/- fans will make this location even worse. Whereas Rice & Marion Streets offer vehicles a lot more 'breathing room'.
Re: Major League Soccer Stadium in Minnesota
And neither site is nearly as good as the Minneapolis site.
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Re: Major League Soccer Stadium in Minnesota
I agree, without a doubt.And neither site is nearly as good as the Minneapolis site.
Re: Major League Soccer Stadium in Minneapolis
We may just have to build it in Eden Prarie for geographic equity purposes.If this does move to the Snelling & 94/University area or the Sears site in St Paul, do we need to rename the Green Line the "Stadium Line"?
Think about it... West to East we have: Target Field, Target Center (short walk, within view from the platform), USBank Stadium, U of M (TCF Bank Stadium, the Barn & Mariucci are short walk from 2 stations), MLS Soccer Stadium, Xcel Center (longest walk of 4-5 blocks) ending at CHS Field.
EDIT: I suppose this is true if it stays in MPLS too. Just joins the Target duo on the west end.
Re: Major League Soccer Stadium in Minnesota
They aren't nearly as good because they are better than the Minneapolis site! At least the Midway location, anyway.And neither site is nearly as good as the Minneapolis site.
My thoughts are that it finally would put a good use to the land off I-94 which has long sat vacant and ugly and help kickstart development in that area. Midway is a more central location for both cities. And given the successful quirkiness of a team like the Saints, I think having what is -- to Americans -- still a novelty sport such as this within the confines of St. Paul but close to Minneapolis would provide a larger audience from which to draw from.
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Re: Major League Soccer Stadium in Minnesota
United in St Paul would also give each city an arena, a baseball stadium, and a "rectangular field" stadium
Not that sports facility equity is a rational need, but spreading out facilities would help on those days of multiple events
Not that sports facility equity is a rational need, but spreading out facilities would help on those days of multiple events
Urbanist in the north woods
Re: Major League Soccer Stadium in Minnesota
I have to agree with you. Either of the St. Paul site is better than the MPLS site. There is a much better chance that redevelopment will flourish in either of the St. Paul sites as opposed to the MPLS site that is so far removed from any real development that would help an entire area. With the railroads, highways, the bus garage expansions, the HERC garbage burner, non profits like Mary's place, you really don't have a lot of space to redevelop around the stadium in MPLS.They aren't nearly as good because they are better than the Minneapolis site! At least the Midway location, anyway.And neither site is nearly as good as the Minneapolis site.
My thoughts are that it finally would put a good use to the land off I-94 which has long sat vacant and ugly and help kickstart development in that area. Midway is a more central location for both cities. And given the successful quirkiness of a team like the Saints, I think having what is -- to Americans -- still a novelty sport such as this within the confines of St. Paul but close to Minneapolis would provide a larger audience from which to draw from.
In St. Paul you have plenty of room on both sides of the freeway that can be utilized for redevelopment. They may eventually have to widen the sidewalks on the Snelling avenue bridge to better accommodate the crowds who are walking and parking south of the freeway. Similar to walking across 394 to the Twins stadium.
You have a huge area between Marion, University, Rice and 94 that would fit a stadium, retail, housing, district parking probably some office space also. Having the Rice street station not in the middle of the road would have with crowd control at the Sears site as well. My vote goes to either of the St. Paul sites.
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Re: Major League Soccer Stadium in Minnesota
I have never understood what the appeal of the Minneapolis site is... It's on essentially an "earlobe" of land wedged in between 394 and 94. I don't want to spend my time sitting on an earlobe next to a garbage burner.
Re: Major League Soccer Stadium in Minnesota
So...Target Field station is a place you wouldn't spend time at? The transit aspect of it may be an inefficient mess, but you can't deny that the lawn and TV and other public elements have been an unquestionable hit despite the fact it sits under the garbage burner.
Re: Major League Soccer Stadium in Minnesota
http://www.minnpost.com/politics-policy ... ent-225964
Minnpost has a pretty good and fair summary of this saga, which can be summed up by the final paragraph:
Minnpost has a pretty good and fair summary of this saga, which can be summed up by the final paragraph:
All of which indicates that Abbott’s radio threats last week mean one of two things: Either the league making strategy up as it goes along, not communicating or coordinating with the McGuire group very well. Or it’s communicating so well that it’s willing the play the bad cop, allowing the locals to portray themselves as the good guys — the likable, unthreatening types.
Re: Major League Soccer Stadium in Minnesota
There's a lot in the last couple pages to respond to, but later. I will say that Snelling is currently getting the widest sidewalks that can be put in place without a complete rebuild (not just the mostly-complete rebuild going on now). Off the top of my head, 3 feet are being added to either side. That's all the piers will allow.In St. Paul you have plenty of room on both sides of the freeway that can be utilized for redevelopment. They may eventually have to widen the sidewalks on the Snelling avenue bridge to better accommodate the crowds who are walking and parking south of the freeway. Similar to walking across 394 to the Twins stadium.
Re: Major League Soccer Stadium in Minnesota
Chris Coleman prefers the Snelling/University site
http://www.twincities.com/sports/ci_284 ... g-site-mls
http://www.twincities.com/sports/ci_284 ... g-site-mls
Re: Major League Soccer Stadium in Minnesota
Realistically, how big of a ramp would they need to build at this site? Even if you assume 50% of attendees arrive by non-car means and if you assume each car has four occupants (both pretty generous assumptions), you're still looking at a need for 2,500 stalls in an area without any meaningful public parking infrastructure.
Probably doesn't matter, because St. Paul has access to magical slush funds of money to spend on something like this.
Probably doesn't matter, because St. Paul has access to magical slush funds of money to spend on something like this.
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Re: Major League Soccer Stadium in Minnesota
Port Authority buys Midway Center and the bus barn site. Sells stadium and ramp site to city. City sets up sweetheart land lease with MN United. United builds stadium. United also builds district parking ramp with money they had budgeted to purchase farmers market site land (30 million I believe)
Port Authority sells excess land around stadium for redevelopment to recoup as much of their initial investment as possible
Port Authority sells excess land around stadium for redevelopment to recoup as much of their initial investment as possible
Urbanist in the north woods
Re: Major League Soccer Stadium in Minnesota
I'm sure there's an obvious reason why this wouldn't work that I can't think of -- but would the state fairgrounds be a good site for the stadium? We know there's proper parking and public transportation infrastructure. Either knock down the grandstand or build the stadium around it. It sits empty for 50 weeks a year anyways, right?
Re: Major League Soccer Stadium in Minnesota
The state fairgrounds isn't directly adjacent to a light rail line. The A Line may not cut it.
Re: Major League Soccer Stadium in Minnesota
My sentiments are on board with you. Build stadium and then work in a district parking ramp in the middle, (Donut hole), with the remaining portion of the outer donut being put up for sale. Work to get a street grid back into the area and some retail, office, and a lot of residential to help support the first two when the stadium is not in use. Getting more use out of this land is a no brainer. No need to have a sea of asphalt to park on, that they have now. West End it to an extent. Put some theaters on top of the parking ramp. Retail at street level with office and residential above. Do some nice wide walkable sidewalks that allow for restaurnats and bars to have nice outdoor seating. THis can be one amazing project.Port Authority buys Midway Center and the bus barn site. Sells stadium and ramp site to city. City sets up sweetheart land lease with MN United. United builds stadium. United also builds district parking ramp with money they had budgeted to purchase farmers market site land (30 million I believe)
Port Authority sells excess land around stadium for redevelopment to recoup as much of their initial investment as possible
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