The Marshall - (515 14th Avenue Southeast)

[Nathan]

I literally gasped in horror when I opened the document... the shock value would have been less if they at least started with the E/W elevations. this has no sense of place in that neighborhood, they could have created a much better feel splitting the block in to at least to pedestrians. All I'm thinking right now is Student Housing x Block E = UTEC

[Didier]

I feel like one of the reasons this seems like such a drastic change to the neighborhood is because it is a massive parking lot right now. There are only residential houses on one side of it, really.

[MNdible]

When residents do that, we label them Nimbys and tell them to move out of the neighborhood.

I don't do that, as I think any number of threads on Minnescraper would bear out.

I expect neighbors' interests to be obviously a bit parochial, but I don't think it's fair to automatically write off their concerns as NIMBYism. Sometimes that shoe fits, and sometimes these projects are absolute dogs.

City planning staff, though, should be able to respond to these proposals with some objectivity and make strong suggestions about meaningful improvements to what is often terrible Site Design, especially in instances where the developer is looking for CUPs, variances, or certainly a zoning change.

This project and the Trader Joe's are two examples where somebody at Planning ought to have stood up and said, "No. We'd love to have your redevelopment in our city, but in order for approval, you're going to have to make some modifications to your proposal because our urban fabric is going to have to live with this dreck for the next 50 years."

They used to do this, but I feel like something has broken their will, or they've become so beholden to the twin lights of increased density and property tax revenue that they'll accept whatever garbage is put in front of them.

[Didier]

I obviously have no idea, but for some reason I kind of doubt the city has ever been that powerful in dictating the aesthetics of what gets built. It seems like an awful lot of power when it's the developers putting up the money. Plus, most of this stuff is subjective.

[MNdible]

I obviously have no idea, but for some reason I kind of doubt the city has ever been that powerful in dictating the aesthetics of what gets built. It seems like an awful lot of power when it's the developers putting up the money. Plus, most of this stuff is subjective.

I wasn't talking about aesthetics, and it's not the aesthetics of this project that particularly concerns me. The city has the obligation to approve site design, and is fully within its rights to apply reasonable conditions when a CUP is requested. Even more so when a variance or a rezoning is requested.

[Didier]

Well I think the mixed reactions on this forum alone show why determining "reasonable" is a bit stickier than you are making it out to be.

If a developer wants to build an apartment complex that will employ construction workers, add to the tax base and redevelop a parking lot, I think the flaws wold have to be a bit more obvious for the city to determine it unreasonable.

[mnmike]

To me, it really doesn't look all that bad. It's bulky, sure...but I would take this over the Melrose or Murals any day. As I have said before...the building that is here now is really nothing special, and that is coming from a person who likes to save old buildings whenever possible. Just my two cents.

[Nick]

I guess I'm more disappointed about them not reopening the street than the actual appearance of the building. There are already large, multi-story buildings (Bierman, Marcy Park Apartments, that place over on like 8th Avenue Southeast & 7th Street Southeast) spread throughout the non-Dinkytown part of Marcy-Holmes, I would just worry that this really is a super block of a project...so if it's ugly, it'll be reeeeal ugly because of how prominent it is.

And I agree with mnmike that the building that's there now isn't particularly special. The street setbacks are awkward with what we're all trying to work towards at this point and by itself the building isn't much to look at. When someone wants to tear down Murals in 2075, hopefully no one tries to save it just because it's old.

[MNdible]

I guess I'm more disappointed about them not reopening the street than the actual appearance of the building. There are already large, multi-story buildings (Bierman, Marcy Park Apartments, that place over on like 8th Avenue Southeast & 7th Street Southeast) spread throughout the non-Dinkytown part of Marcy-Holmes, I would just worry that this really is a super block of a project...

Yes, this.

I think y'all are being too hard on the existing building. It's not an "important" building, it's suffered an unfortunate remodeling in the 80's, it has been encroached on all sides by surface parking. Nobody's going to lay down in front of a bulldozer to save it. But it's got good bones, and it's handsome in the modest, understated way that old schools are. If they built this new project next door to this one instead of on top of it, I'd wager that the school outlasts the apartments by a long shot.

As an aside, old Marshall High School was an important incubator for the Minneapolis punk music scene, so if we're going to save that decrepit duplex by Burch because Courtney Love slept there, we should definitely save the school.

[woofner]

The comprehensive plan has at least four policies related to the preservation of the street grid and opposition to superblocks:

2.1.4: Preserve the existing transportation grid through right-of-way preservation and acquisition.
2.3.4: Maintain the street grid, reconnecting it where possible, and discourage the creation of superblocks that isolate pedestrians and increase walking distances.
10.15: Wherever possible, restore and maintain the traditional street and sidewalk grid as part of new developments.
10.15.1: Consider street vacations as a last resort to preserve the network of city streets and arterials.

Obviously, the UTEC redevelopment runs afoul of all of these. Funny that they weren't mentioned in the staff report. I would say that forms the basis of an appeal of a planning commission appeal. Anyone want to throw down?

(These policies, by the way, were the ones cited in the Pedestrian Master Plan, which mentions them in support of its policy to

1.2.1 Add new pedestrian connections where possible.
As opportunities arise, the City will consider adding pedestrian connections in areas of poor connectivity through new sidewalks, trails or streets, including through new development, street reconstruction, or major freeway reconstruction.

Of course, if planning staff couldn't be bothered to read their own policies, they're certainly not going to pay attention to what other departments are doing.)

[twincitizen]

I watched a little bit of the Planning Commission meeting out of curiosity, and the only thing people complained about was the loss of the surface parking lot. According to the owners of Kafe 421, Varsity Theater, and Loring Pasta Bar, Dinkytown is going to shrivel up and die without the parking lot. I guess we shall see.

The owner of Duffy's Pizza (1308 5th St) and adjacent parking lot (corner of 5th & 13th) spoke in favor of the project and mentioned that her pay parking lot is never at capacity.

One valid point that a lot of people brought up was the driveway of this new building would not line up with 13th Ave, but rather be askew just like the parking lot entrance is now.

Schiff knocked it out of the park by showing an image of the Dinkytown area and the abundance of surface parking, suggesting that there was a lack of shared parking.

[Nick]

http://www.minneapolismn.gov/www/groups ... 100003.pdf

This was amended to add some retail. Do you guys think this will get built? I guess I have my doubts.

[Nathan]

It's not the easiest to interpret, but was it also revised to have a walkway through where 13th should be?

[min-chi-cbus]

http://www.minneapolismn.gov/www/groups ... 100003.pdf

This was amended to add some retail. Do you guys think this will get built? I guess I have my doubts.

I guess what makes you think it won't be a "go"? It seems like lately when projects have detailed schematics of their building available for public viewing the projects seem to be a near-certainty. I guess the MASSIVE size of this project is the only red flag for me, but not a big one. I guess I have no reason to think this won't go through, unless neighborhood opposition gets in the way or the developers can't secure financing (or want huge tax breaks).

[seanrichardryan]

Neighborhood opposition? What neighborhood? I thought anyone who actually cared about that area left running and screaming years ago, leaving dilapidated student slums in their wake. The investors only care about top dollar with minimal regulation.

This project is still too big.

[Nick]

http://www.minneapolismn.gov/www/groups ... 100003.pdf

This was amended to add some retail. Do you guys think this will get built? I guess I have my doubts.

I guess what makes you think it won't be a "go"? It seems like lately when projects have detailed schematics of their building available for public viewing the projects seem to be a near-certainty. I guess the MASSIVE size of this project is the only red flag for me, but not a big one. I guess I have no reason to think this won't go through, unless neighborhood opposition gets in the way or the developers can't secure financing (or want huge tax breaks).

It's just a really, really big project located in an area that will basically require the tenants to be students to some degree, by a developer I've never heard of before. Daniel Oberpriller of CPM mentioned in a Daily article today that a lot of what he's building will be able to be changed into non-student housing if the market demanded it. The stuff in Stadium Village and on the West Bank are in locations that will appeal to folks outside your average sophomore, but I dunno about this site. Maybe I'm being silly, but I sure hope they don't knock the school down and then get cold feet.

[gpete]

Article from MnDaily (10-31-12) about the project: increased parking, a public walkway, and changes to the commercial space.

http://www.mndaily.com/2012/10/31/commu ... utec-plans

[Nathan]

I think all of us can agree that the walkway is a necessity and great that the neighborhood was able to get that added in.

And did you guys catch this?

The developer plans to market it not only to University students but also to faculty, staff and other professionals who wish to live near campus.

Music to our ears?

I'm starting to feel better about this project now.

[MNdible]

The developer plans to market it not only to University students but also to faculty, staff and other professionals who wish to live near campus.

Yeah? I'm marketing my basement as a sbulet to hot 18 year old coeds, but so far no takers.

[seanrichardryan]

A huge wooden building full of students with minimal sound-proofing, sounds like a professor's dream house.