Nic on Fifth - (290' - 26 Stories)

[min-chi-cbus]

I have mixed feelings about this development. I think this site should be getting something more than a stubby, residential high-rise. However, I know there is a good chance that we would have to wait decades to see a sizable (500ft - 900ft), mixed-use or office tower.

I'd almost rather put up a temporary park or other amenity that cannot be touched for 20-30 years, only to become available again for development -- only this time the parcel will be in the epicenter of a highly-dense and busy downtown area. Sounds perfect, let's do it.

[HiawathaGuy]

I have mixed feelings about this development. I think this site should be getting something more than a stubby, residential high-rise. However, I know there is a good chance that we would have to wait decades to see a sizable (500ft - 900ft), mixed-use or office tower.

I was thinking about this more today. It might be sort of cool to see Ryan work with Xcel, to incorporate both their tower needs (for the other half of the block) with the residential tower. I know that Xcel wasn't ready to break ground immediately on this - meaning the whole project would have to be delayed (maybe another year). But what if they instead of building a 10 story building on the north half, spread that into like 5-7 for the whole block, with the residential tower still raising above that? It could result in a reather cool looking building, with step backs at different levels, etc. I'm not sure if this is even a possibility, or if other parties might be interested in more office space, pushing the base tower portion taller with office space, and the subsequent residential tower taller as a result? Just a thought.

[John]

I have mixed feelings about this development. I think this site should be getting something more than a stubby, residential high-rise. However, I know there is a good chance that we would have to wait decades to see a sizable (500ft - 900ft), mixed-use or office tower.

I was thinking about this more today. It might be sort of cool to see Ryan work with Xcel, to incorporate both their tower needs (for the other half of the block) with the residential tower. I know that Xcel wasn't ready to break ground immediately on this - meaning the whole project would have to be delayed (maybe another year). But what if they instead of building a 10 story building on the north half, spread that into like 5-7 for the whole block, with the residential tower still raising above that? It could result in a reather cool looking building, with step backs at different levels, etc. I'm not sure if this is even a possibility, or if other parties might be interested in more office space, pushing the base tower portion taller with office space, and the subsequent residential tower taller as a result? Just a thought.

I really drove people crazy on this thread a few months ago when I kept reiterating how upset I was when Opus downsized their apartment tower. From an aesthetic standpoint the tower will look stubby , however, the street level is very well done which mostly makes up for that. And I am quite over it now and they can build what they see fit. However, Hiawathaguy and Unity, you bring up an excellent points about his block. The truth is this block has far more potential than what's being proposed by Opus. And whats' frustrating is they have the opportunity (and all the necessary ingredients) to create a much more ambitious and dynamic project here.

[Didier]

To be clear, it wasn't your opinion about the downsizing that "drove people crazy."

It was that you re-stated that opinion near verbatim almost every other post.

[John]

To be clear, it wasn't your opinion about the downsizing that "drove people crazy."

It was that you re-stated that opinion near verbatim almost every other post.

Yes, exactly. As I stated above : "I kept reiterating"

[MotorCity2TwinCities]

If OPUS has the financing, what is the delay!?!?!?!

[min-chi-cbus]

If OPUS has the financing, what is the delay!?!?!?!

Soft market?

[612transplant]

Although I don't doubt that the infrastructure there probably supports it, I don't think I would like a supertall on that sight. Going from parking lot to 1,000 footer across the street is a bit visually jarring, to say the least...

As much as I want a new supertall in Minneapolis, this would not be the site I would choose. But I think a tower between 500-600 feet would work nicely.

Supertall potential, not necessarily supertall site. The site could bolster a 500' to 800' "very-tall" and I'd be just as satisfied. My point was that the location and nearby amenities make this site more attractive to that kind of crowd than a 26 story apartment building.....and I've said that since day 1. Now if this one gets built I'm not going to piss and moan, but if it doesn't I won't be either.

I can agree with you on that, although I think this site works well for residential, and I don't foresee any supertall residential towers in Minneapolis anytime soon....

Supertall commercial would work better down the Mall a bit, closer to the core of downtown and the center of the skyway system. That's why blocks like TCF are so intriguing...

[mnmike]

Nope, no soft market...not yet anyway. My new gm moved here a couple weeks ago from out of town, and couldn't find any nice apartments available until January. Of course, I am sure he could have if he tried(drove around and looked at vintage buildings in uptown and such), but he wanted more recent upscale construction...point is, all of the newer buildings like this are filling up before they are even finished. Occupancy rates are holding steady still...I would think once the absorbtion slows down, then we will see groundbreakings slow down.

[Wedgeguy]

Here is my take on this site. I'd prefer that the current proposal not be build. I'd rather see a mixed use building with retail on the first 2 levels. With these first two levels I would propose an Arcade that would run thru the center of the building long ways from Nicolett [sic] to Marquette. John will agree with me as we both have seen the many arcades in the Cleveland area. This arcade would be used by passengers of the LRT to get to the Skyway to the two building that Opus build 20 years back. To the best of my knowledge with the LRT station there, there will not be a Skyway across to The Gavidee II site anytime in the near future. Because people would have to enter from the Ground floor to get to the second floor both levels would have good foot traffic. Levels 3 thru 6 to 8 depending on parking levels desired would be parking for Office or condo owners. Above the parking would be about 20 stories of office space. This part of the building would probably span close to the block long space between Nicolett [sic] and Marquette. This would allow large floor plate for office users and allow for setbacks for a condos tower to rise another 20 to 25 stories above that. Allowing setback as you move up the condo tower like the old Deco buildings of New York would give terraces and texture and light to the area surrounding it. This is my Fantasy.

[min-chi-cbus]

I also live in Cleveland currently and was blown away by these arcades that dot downtown and are terribly under-utilized and under-appreciated.

[Wedgeguy]

I also live in Cleveland currently and was blown away by these arcades that dot downtown and are terribly under-utilized and under-appreciated.

I wish that Minneapolis had a few of those arcades. They are gorgous and grand some of them.

[Lancestar2]

an arcade? didn't they just build an arcade bar not to far from this site? Wouldn't that be a bit much for the market to absorb. Also what makes Cleveland's arcades so special?

[mnmike]

Do you really not understand what Arcade means, or are you being sarcastic? I can't tell.

[John]

Do you really not understand what Arcade means, or are you being sarcastic? I can't tell.

Wedgeguy is referring to 3 shopping arcades built in the early 20th century in Cleveland ( which I think are all now hotels). Similar in structure to Cesar Pelli's Gaviidae Common, but oriented perpendicular between two streets rather than parallel. Here are 2 of the public arcades from Cleveland. They are beautiful!

[612transplant]

Are we honestly obsessing over Arcades, now? Really, guys? Arcades???

My gosh, what other useless frills do we wish Minneapolis had? An Obelisk, perhaps? A Monument Avenue?

Besides, doesn't Gaviidae already function essentially as a wide arcade?

If you want healthy retail, I get it, and I'm right there with you....if you want to get your Victorian Era giggles, go to St. Paul. Maybe this is too cynical. The point is, the retail is not going to magically be successful because it is separated by a narrow hallway and under a grand skylight. It will be successful if the market conditions are right. That's probably why Cleveland's "grand arcades" aren't successful...

[John]

The place where an arcade like Cleveland's would work is with a revamped City Center, where the retail mall opened up dramatically at both Hennepin and Nicollet so you could see completely through to the other side.

I don't think the Nicollet Residences site is really a good idea for a new shopping center downtown. We just need to enhance what already exists. And actually, Nicollet Residences (as it is currently designed) will have retail on Nicollet Mall that is very pedestrian friendly.

[1200onthemall]

IMO the last thing we need is an "Arcade" we have an empty City Center, ghost town Block E, a near dead 2 block long Gaviidea Common.....good grief!

[Wedgeguy]

IMO the last thing we need is an "Arcade" we have an empty City Center, ghost town Block E, a near dead 2 block long Gaviidea Common.....good grief!

You all are looking at too grand of thing. I see a 2 level area that stretches from Nicolett [sic] to Marquette. The ground level shops are more for the workers that would use the ground floor to enter the office building. The second floor, alias the skyway level, would be more about stores that would work for the people who live in the building or the other close by residential buildings. I'm talking about the ability to see the escalators for the skyway from all the way down to Nicolett [sic]. Not sure if Excel will have any skyway connection to that building or not. If not, then any Excel employee can walk half a block to get into the skyway system if they so choose. I'm not talking a grand shopping center, but a multifuctional lobby area that allow the street to meet the skyways.

[nordeast homer]

As nice looking as these spaces are I think minneapolis has proven time and time again that it cannot support these types of retail, I'm guessing from your comment that they are under utilized means that Cleveland can't either.