B Line Lake St Rapid Bus, Midtown Rail Transit

[mattaudio]

I missed it tonight so I'll be there on Thursday as well. Could you elaborate on the loop option? I haven't seen anything in the documentation referencing a loop.
Although I will say I'm nearly categorically opposed to loop routings for transit.

[Le Sueur]

^^^ Last page of the Alternative Analysis:

viewtopic.php?f=18&t=1049&start=40#p21785

[Tcmetro]

I went down to the meeting. There wasn't really any new information than what has been posted on the project page; however, talking to the planners was useful.

- They are looking at combining the Nicollet and 35W stations into one station at 1st Ave with access points at Stevens and Nicollet.

- Considering using similar vehicles to the LRVs. They want to share the maintenance facility with the SW Line. I would imagine they will either use the same LRVs (best idea, IMO) or streetcars with similar floor heights and electric voltages.

- I asked a question about how the single track was going to impact frequency, but the planner thought I was talking about travel times. He did state that the project would be appx. 33-50% single track. Also, I wonder which bridges are impediments to the double track line. If it's those bridges built in the 80's we should definitely knock them down. I really hope that they take building retaining walls along the line, and repouring the decks of those awful 1910's era bridges.

- Some guy running for mayor was handing out cards stating that if elected, he would build viaducts for vans along the bus routes every 5 minutes. It's more awful than PRT!!!

[mattaudio]

- Some guy running for mayor was handing out cards stating that if elected, he would build viaducts for vans along the bus routes every 5 minutes. It's more awful than PRT!!!

Ding ding ding, we have a winner! http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/mp ... 0w3Hn16t0F

[RailBaronYarr]

I'm having a really hard time seeing how the math works out on that proposal if average trip length is 5 miles, you assume added cost since you're not picking someone up exactly where you drop someone else off. If it could be done that cheaply at a profit, wouldn't a taxi company have done it?...

[twincitizen]

Can we please just not even acknowledge that idea? At least not in this thread.

[RailBaronYarr]

Heh, yeah. I wasn't looking for a discussion, just wondering to myself how anyone could think that would work out...

[talindsay]

Can we please just not even acknowledge that idea? At least not in this thread.

Yes, that is the best approach. It's hard not to engage it because it shows such a complete, utter lack of understanding of even the most basic factors in transit operation. But engaging it gives it an air of legitimacy that it doesn't deserve. The economic predictions make Michael Jackson look like a well-grounded economist.

[twincitizen]

- They are looking at combining the Nicollet and 35W stations into one station at 1st Ave with access points at Stevens and Nicollet.
- Considering using similar vehicles to the LRVs. They want to share the maintenance facility with the SW Line. I would imagine they will either use the same LRVs (best idea, IMO) or streetcars with similar floor heights and electric voltages.

I am feeling like a frackin' genius right now, because I have been harping on those two points for months (privately and on urbanMSP). I should work for Metro Transit or something

[mattaudio]

You weren't the only one, though. Must be a Matt thing.

[twincitizen]

I say this with maximum snark, but it's too bad the Sabo bridge didn't just fall apart completely (not hurting anyone obviously) so we could build a proper bridge capable of carrying bikes and a streetcar line.

QFT.

http://finance-commerce.com/2013/06/up- ... ill-grows/

[MNdible]

Looks like they're undertaking a study of the historic Midtown bridges, including assessing their ability to accommodate a double track transit line.

[twincitizen]

I did my own uninformed analyis of the ability to get double track between Hennepin and Lyndale, or at least as far east as possible. Without a doubt Fremont is an issue, due to the presence of the MoZaic-adjacent retaining wall and bus-only driveway to the Uptown Transit Center . However, that bridge is in insanely bad condition. I wouldn't be surprised if it's one that can't be salvaged. Not knowing the ROW needs, even the passage under Hennepin looks tight. The station might even have to be split-platforms on either side of Hennepin, or located west of Hennepin with a center platform and vertical circulation up to the current transit center.

Bryant is going to be a tight squeeze as well, due to the dual Greenway ramps there. The Nicollet Avenue bridge will be replaced of course, with the removal of KMart and addition of streetcar to Nicollet.

I think it's imperative that the section between Hennepin and the West Lake SWLRT Station be fully double tracked. That stretch should have higher service levels to shuttle between those two points. If there were a shuttle connection between Uptown and West Lake running every 5, with 10 minute service on the rest of the line, that would reduce the sting of the SWLRT alignment choice a little.

[MNdible]

As I recall, part of the reason for the single track also had to do with the existing narrow Greenway bridges over East Calhoun and Dean Parkway.

[twincitizen]

I just assume those would need to be replaced since the train would actually run on those ones rather than under them. I'm not sure they're even wide enough for single track. There's another one over the lagoon/channel too, just west of E. Calhoun.

Were any of those bridges fully replaced recently or were they just being resurfaced/rehabbed? Some had serious work done in either 2011 or 2012.

[web]

How could they not be wide enough for a single track.....not that far in the past this was a double tracked Railroad. Soo line and Previous Milwaukee road......The bike path walking path should have been as north as possible....seems its smack in the middle of where the one track was.

[MNdible]

How could they not be wide enough for a single track...

They are wide enough for single track. Not wide enough for double track (with the Greenway bike and walk trails).

[web]

possibly build those shared track type things where its 4 rails with 2 overlapping...I have seen this where bridges are too narrow and way too expensive to widen.

[mulad]

I'm confused on which area you're talking about. Old aerial images show that the railroad bridges over the Lake Calhoun <-> Lake of the Isles waterway, East Lake Calhoun Parkway, and Dean Parkway fit two tracks and nothing else.

Of course, those bridges are probably old enough that they should be replaced anyway.

[seanrichardryan]

They could easily add a small steel viaduct adjacent to the concrete ones to take the bike and walking paths. That would allow for double track over Dean and Isles Parkways. The old Como-Harriet streetcar was a double track through what was essentially a slightly wider alley between James & Irving south of 31st.