Sports: Pro & Con

[J2K]

You could be working with someone with abuse problems in the past and not even know it. Just because they're in the NFL doesn't mean there won't be "bad apples." I still think they have the right to work just like that imaginary example of the guy next to you at the office... A guy has to earn a living regardless.

[IllogicalJake]

You could be working with someone with abuse problems in the past and not even know it. Just because they're in the NFL doesn't mean there won't be "bad apples." I still think they have the right to work just like that imaginary example of the guy next to you at the office... A guy has to earn a living regardless.

That guy next to me in the office didn't sign a Code of Conduct as part of his employment agreement, nor specifically aims to be a role model. Can we stop with this false equivalency now?

[EOst]

David, I'm not defending Peterson, but if you (or anyone else on here) had been arraigned for the same charges and posted bond, you (or we) would be allowed to go back to work.

This isn't an "is he guilty or not?" question. Peterson admits to having done everything he's accused of; the only question is whether what he did is technically illegal, or merely morally abhorrent. Whether Peterson is convicted or not, he's still a horrific asshole.

[FISHMANPET]

The NFL and its players have willfully chosen to hold themselves to a higher standard, which they should, since they are role models. They are not meeting that standard.

[mplsjaromir]

The NFL and its players have willfully chosen to hold themselves to a higher standard, which they should, since they are role models. They are not meeting that standard.

Also they have a very profitable business which for some reason is receiving a very generous public subsidy by the state of Minnesota and city on Minneapolis.

[grant1simons2]

I really just want him to be suspended until the end of the season and wait then let the court make a decision well the NFL does their "investigation"

Just my 2 cents

[FISHMANPET]

That's very true, we would certainly hold elected officials to a higher standard.

[seanrichardryan]

But money and ratings and stuff.

[David Greene]

David, I'm not defending Peterson, but if you (or anyone else on here) had been arraigned for the same charges and posted bond, you (or we) would be allowed to go back to work.

I don't work for the NFL. The NFL has a player code of conduct. They've suspended and terminated players for less before. When those players signed on, they signed on to be held to a higher standard.

It's not like AP is going to suffer due to unemployment.

[David Greene]

I was really hoping these posts were moved to a new topic entitled "David's self-righteous musings."

If protecting kids is self-righteous, guilty as charged. I know what abuse is and what it does to people.

[David Greene]

You could be working with someone with abuse problems in the past and not even know it. Just because they're in the NFL doesn't mean there won't be "bad apples." I still think they have the right to work just like that imaginary example of the guy next to you at the office... A guy has to earn a living regardless.

You have a right to work. You do not have a right to work for the NFL.

[xandrex]

I found this article really fascinating.

I need to provide the mandatory disclaimer that I think what Adrian Peterson is absolute, completely wrong.

But I have found some really interesting commentary coming from some people (especially of the privileged, white variety) that rubbed me wrong for some reason. This article seems to get at some of what isn't being discussed (even if I don't completely agree with some of what she's saying).

[David Greene]

That is an excellent article, in that it clearly says what AP did was wrong but also goes beyond the tired culture argument and dives deeply into how that culture is shaped by a white-dominated society. Excellent stuff.

[NickP]

I agree with both of you. I found the article to be spot on in its non-condonement of the way AP punished his son, but also addresses very well how the culture of corporeal punishment has been created by racial, social, and economic pressures.

[min-chi-cbus]

You could be working with someone with abuse problems in the past and not even know it. Just because they're in the NFL doesn't mean there won't be "bad apples." I still think they have the right to work just like that imaginary example of the guy next to you at the office... A guy has to earn a living regardless.

That guy next to me in the office didn't sign a Code of Conduct as part of his employment agreement, nor specifically aims to be a role model. Can we stop with this false equivalency now?

I work in an office and I have to sign a Code of Conduct agreement each and every year. In fact, most of the places I've worked enforce such a thing.

[xandrex]

That is an excellent article, in that it clearly says what AP did was wrong but also goes beyond the tired culture argument and dives deeply into how that culture is shaped by a white-dominated society. Excellent stuff.

I think it also points something else out: What AP did is wrong, but many of us have reached that conclusion from our experiences as fairly privileged, white people living in the northern part of the country. It doesn't make the act any less horrible, but the lens through which the act is seen is indeed different. So while AP clearly was in the wrong, we have to ask what social, economic, and racial norms have been created by society that lead to such abuse of a child.

I work in an office and I have to sign a Code of Conduct agreement each and every year. In fact, most of the places I've worked enforce such a thing.

I have to think that one's field of work really affects whether they would have to sign one. I've never had to sign a conduct form as part of my employment (though my current role is public-facing, so that is in some ways surprising).

[David Greene]

Here is scientific evidence of why any form of corporal punishment is wrong.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/gre ... punishment

That's why I'm so hot on this and the people who defend AP. There is literally no good that comes from even spanking a child. They say when you become a parent, it changes you. That's for sure. Two years ago I wouldn't have had the context to be so deeply affected by this. But I am very aware of how my actions and the actions of others will affect the person Julian becomes. Every kids deserves a safe home and loving family.

[David Greene]

That is an excellent article, in that it clearly says what AP did was wrong but also goes beyond the tired culture argument and dives deeply into how that culture is shaped by a white-dominated society. Excellent stuff.

I think it also points something else out: What AP did is wrong, but many of us have reached that conclusion from our experiences as fairly privileged, white people living in the northern part of the country. It doesn't make the act any less horrible, but the lens through which the act is seen is indeed different. So while AP clearly was in the wrong, we have to ask what social, economic, and racial norms have been created by society that lead to such abuse of a child.

Right, but I wish the article had gone a bit further. It's not just Black families that use corporal punishment and it's not just southerners either. Why is that? I've read that people in various countries around the world are shocked to know that U.S. families use corporal punishment.

I totally get the context of Black families feeling that their kids need heavy discipline because white society expect perfect behavior from kids of color. It's a logical response to a horrible situation. But why is corporal punishment the go-to option?

I've read some plausible theories to answer both questions (mainly revolving around slave culture) but I don't know how applicable they are. I wish the author had delved into alternative discipline models that all families can use, or at least provided references for them.

[mattaudio]

I agree, but I don't want to see this case become a spanking vs no-spanking debate in our culture. Even parents who spank should see that this is clearly abuse. But so far I've see some commenters online who defend Peterson because they defend spanking. If we conflate the two, I think it will further divide society and give unwarranted support from some folks to Peterson because they feel alienated by those who categorically conflate spanking with abuse. That said, I'm not a fan of corporal punishment, and thanks for the link David.

[David Greene]

I agree, but I don't want to see this case become a spanking vs no-spanking debate in our culture. Even parents who spank should see that this is clearly abuse. But so far I've see some commenters online who defend Peterson because they defend spanking. If we conflate the two, I think it will further divide society and give unwarranted support from some folks to Peterson because they feel alienated by those who categorically conflate spanking with abuse.

That's a helpful point. Clearly there is a different between severities of corporal punishment and I don't think spanking a child should result in jail time. What AP did does deserve jail time, though he'll likely plead out. That's better than nothing, though.

We need a LOT more education on child discipline -- helpful, loving conversations with parents about what's best for their children. I'm not interested in demonizing every parent who spanks their kids. I'm interested in helping parents be better parents for their own sake and for their kids. I do believe AP did what he did with an honest feeling that it was best for his son. In that sense he's a tragic figure. But that doesn't excuse it and it doesn't mean he shouldn't face consequences.