DTE: Wells Fargo, Radisson Red, Edition Apts & Millwright Building

[helsinki]

Not saying this park plan doesn't have it's issues...but....Isn't it supposed to be surrounded on at least 2 sides by hundreds of residences? And Isn't there supposed to be leasable ground floor retail space in the Wells Fargo Buildings? Also, if we are comparing to Gold Medal Park, that was pretty much built as "basic trees and grass" as well, the only addition was the mound in the middle. I think it would be foolish to assume that this won't at least have "landscaping and well designed fixtures" to start (I wouldn't call the muddy lawn and dead and/or weedy daylilies and mulch that wasn't even refreshed this year at Gold Medal Park "meticulous" landscaping) . Lastly, the maintanence issue will be resolved...it is, of course, already being discussed.

As I understand it, all apartments that had been planned for this development have been postponed, save the building opposite the jail. At least initially, therefore, it won't be surrounded by hundreds of residences.

Again, Gold Medal Park has flaws. You seem to agree. This proposal offers less. A mound and LED backlit benches aren't much, but they give Gold Medal Park something. Regardless, Mears Park or Rice Park should be the models here, not the pleasant landscaping along the river that is Gold Medal Park.

And yes, the maintenance issue will probably get resolved at some point. But it is damning with false praise to say that the land won't turn into a patch of weeds. The uncertainty regarding the future of the park injects legitimate doubts as to the viability and desirability of this proposal, no? Especially when demolition of the Strib building is the price to pay it.

[mullen]

yea let's just kiss thousands of dowtown employees and hundreds of milions of dollars in private investment in our city bye bye. good plan minneapolis. that concrete surface parking is vastly superior.

and it's going to happen, the mayor elect supports the development.

[mnmike]

As I understand it, all apartments that had been planned for this development have been postponed, save the building opposite the jail. At least initially, therefore, it won't be surrounded by hundreds of residences.

Ah, Is that right? I thought there was residential attached to the front of the office space facing the park that was still part of phase one...so are they just going to build office buildings with empty lots in front of them facing the street/park? In the renderings, it looks like that residential is pretty well integrated into the structure of the office buildings.

[helsinki]

As I understand it, all apartments that had been planned for this development have been postponed, save the building opposite the jail. At least initially, therefore, it won't be surrounded by hundreds of residences.

Ah, Is that right? I thought there was residential attached to the front of the office space facing the park that was still part of phase one...so are they just going to build office buildings with empty lots in front of them facing the street/park?

No, the office buildings will face the park, the empty lots will face 3rd Street.

[mnmike]

Are we sure about that? It really looks like residential with balconies fronting the park in the renderings...

[helsinki]

yea let's just kiss thousands of dowtown employees and hundreds of milions of dollars in private investment in our city bye bye. good plan minneapolis. that concrete surface parking is vastly superior.

This development proposes the construction of 4 buildings: two towers, one parking ramp, and one apartment building. Three of the four are destined for current surface parking lots; only one - the ramp - will displace an existing structure (a beautifully gritty brick industrial building at the corner of Park and 4th).

"Kissing thousands of employees and hundreds of millions in private investment [cough, subsidies, cough] bye bye" is one way of looking at it. Another way is to ask "Why do those four buildings, none of which are on the block containing the Strib building, need a neglected expanse of grass in front of them?" I think they don't.

[John]

A lot of people have hinted at this in earlier comments today with references to Manhattan. The way to make this a succesful urban park is to encourage high density development with a wide variety of multiple uses to be built around it. The Stadium and Wells Fargo project are a decent start, but not the " end all " in making this a successful area. In particular ,The Armoury needs to be refurbished into something very dynamic that draws people. There should be hotels and residential buildings bringing in thousands of people to live and stay here on a 24 hour basis. If this doesn't happen, the park is destined to be a dud.

[mullen]

u have to manage the green space, this isn't rocket science. this is why the park board is involved. and having the residential population at the front door helps.

this will not be some wind swept empty corporate plaza.

[PhilmerPhil]

the ramp - will displace an existing structure (a beautifully gritty brick industrial building at the corner of Park and 4th).

This troubles me more than the loss of the Strib building...

[mnmike]

No, the office buildings will face the park, the empty lots will face 3rd Street.

http://www.ci.minneapolis.mn.us/www/gro ... 115519.pdf

There are 2 smaller residential/ground floor retail buildings that I believe are planned in the first phase to be facing the park in front of the office buildings, as you can see in the latest version of the plans(posted earlier in this thread). These are the ones I was talking about. That said, yes, only a couple hundred units planned in the first phase.

[John]

^^^Ryan's residential proposal is weak at best. Looks like yet another stick built apartment building for the North Loop or Uptown. The miniature scale looks goofy with the buildings around it. They need to be much more ambitious.

[aeisenberg]

^^^Ryan's residential proposal is weak at best. Looks like yet another stick built apartment building for the North Loop or Uptown. The miniature scale looks goofy with the buildings around it. They need to be much more ambitious.

Agreed. The residential looks awkward/out of place/dwarfed, and the scariest thing is that this half-assed residential proposal is the only residential on the park. I feel really uneasy about this.

[Minneboy]

Is it true that nothing can block the view of City Hall Clock Tower from the new stadium? If not then Ryan is wasting a huge opportunity to build something truly iconic on that apartment location.

[mnmike]

Agreed. The residential looks awkward/out of place/dwarfed, and the scariest thing is that this half-assed residential proposal is the only residential on the park. I feel really uneasy about this.

Again, can I point out the residential in front of the office buildings facing the park? Anyone know if that is still planned for phase 1? It looks like it, as it was clearly presented in the plans with the new 6 story building.

[Avian]

While I don't like the wood-framed idea, the apartment building at the west end of the park is designed (as I understand it) to shield the view of the jail yet still provide an opening to the view of the clock tower and skyline beyond. I wouldn't want a taller building here.

What I would like to see is the demolition of the buildings on the south side of the park (save the armory) and replaced with additional residential and retail to complete the framing of the park.

[Tyler]

Agreed. The residential looks awkward/out of place/dwarfed, and the scariest thing is that this half-assed residential proposal is the only residential on the park. I feel really uneasy about this.

Again, can I point out the residential in front of the office buildings facing the park? Anyone know if that is still planned for phase 1? It looks like it, as it was clearly presented in the plans with the new 6 story building.

Yes, those are part of phase I. And even though the apartments facing 3rd are phase II, during the commission hearing, they stated they want to construct these while the office towers were still being built. No guarantee on that, obviously -- but that was their stated intention.

[MNdible]

From Max Musicant's blog:
"back of the envelope calculations point to "The Yard" needing to draw 1,750,000 visitors a year in order for it to feel safe and vibrant. For perspective, Minnehaha Falls and Stone Arch Bridge both draw just over 1M apiece annually."

To put it slightly differently, there will be 6,000 workers and 1,000 residents working in the projects directly associated with this project. If those people alone visited the park twice a week, that would get you to 700,000 visitors, not counting anybody from stadium events or anybody visiting the surrounding new adjacent retail and restaurant spaces. And not counting anybody coming from anywhere else in the city to visit the park specifically.

I guess I don't get the sudden onslaught of negativity about the park. Just because the baseline agreement with Ryan covers bare-minimum improvements, it's clearly not in the city's, or Ryan's, or Wells Fargo's, or the Viking's interest to leave this as an unimproved space.

It isn't an afterthought, but it is logically lagging behind the other developments in the area. And for good reason, because it doesn't make sense to design the park until the other pieces fall into place and you know it's going to happen.

[Tyler]

I'm not worried about the park. My only question is: what guarantee, if any, does the city have to make to Ryan regarding it? If, in say 10 years its considered a failure can it simply be developed?

[John]

While I don't like the wood-framed idea, the apartment building at the west end of the park is designed (as I understand it) to shield the view of the jail yet still provide an opening to the view of the clock tower and skyline beyond. I wouldn't want a taller building here.

What I would like to see is the demolition of the buildings on the south side of the park (save the armory) and replaced with additional residential and retail to complete the framing of the park.

Yes, I agree about the height not obstructing the clock tower, but from the renderings, it looks like they they could add a few more floors and not block the view. Of course, that may mean building it in (god forbid) more expensive concrete. Actually, something like the proposed 12 story Alatus project on Washington Ave would work better. It really needs to have a presence that creates a stronger wall effect and frames the west side of the park that's more in line with the surrounding buildings.

[Avian]

^ Yes, I'd go for that. And materials that would relate it to the office project.