St. Louis Park - General Topics

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Anondson
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Re: St. Louis Park - General Topics

Postby Anondson » February 17th, 2015, 8:36 pm

I don't live in SLP now, I did until about five years ago, I live in Hopkins now. I'm very involved with SLP because my kids are in school school there, and it is really hard to cut ties to the home town you lived in for thirty years. ;)

I immediately thought about the West End sliver of Golden Valley. Is there any property SLP could swap for it that has as much potential future value as that portion of West End? The only road block Golden Valley through up was to prevent 16th from being connected to the frontage road, GV was always fine with heavy development of its sliver. In this Hopkins/SLP border swap Hopkins was sticking to its "plan". Hopkins has been trying to "de-industrialize" the large mega-blocks in this corner, having Japs-Olson show up and ask to scale up big time wouldn't go well with "the plan".

The border swap solves much for all sides.

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Re: St. Louis Park - General Topics

Postby Anondson » February 20th, 2015, 6:47 pm

Outdoor rink proposal smoothly moves closer. Would replace skate park, skate park would move elsewhere.

http://sailor.mnsun.com/2015/02/20/ice- ... ncil-vote/

If this must be built, I'd like to see the skate park locate somewhere close to the network of regional trails. An even bigger plus if it can be near one of the LRT stations.

bapster2006
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Re: St. Louis Park - General Topics

Postby bapster2006 » February 20th, 2015, 9:02 pm

You will get your wish. The skate park will be right across the street at Beltline Boulevard, and close to the trail and LRT station. I was just talking to a city employee about this a couple days ago.

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Re: St. Louis Park - General Topics

Postby maxbaby » February 23rd, 2015, 4:01 pm

New outdoor ice rink and sports facility. http://kstp.com/news/stories/S3714481.shtml?cat=1

Sara Bergen

Re: St. Louis Park - General Topics

Postby Sara Bergen » March 2nd, 2015, 9:35 am

This is my letter to the editor submitted to the Sun Sailor. I think it will be published next edition:

I was disappointed to read (Feb 20) that the St. Louis Park council approved plans for an outdoor refrigerated ice rink.


My concern is that City of St. Louis Park agreed to spend close to $4,500,000 (in present value dollars) for a structure that will primarily benefit families who can afford the high-cost (time and money) of playing hockey. As Councilwoman Sanger pointed out, this represents a relatively small segment of our community.


The City of St. Louis Park should invest in activities and infrastructure that will more equitably benefit youth. One idea is a deeper subsidy for classes like gymnastics, chess, art, and acting. Another option would be a few neighborhood recreation centers that are staffed on the weekends and evenings for kids to play basketball, dodgeball, etc, much like the ones in Minneapolis.


Or, given the middle school drowning last year, I would love to see a resource-backed commitment from the City that all children in our community learn how to swim. Rather than trying to compete with Edina, St. Louis Park should double down on what it does best: being a (relatively) affordable community that cares about and invests in all families.

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Re: St. Louis Park - General Topics

Postby twincitizen » March 2nd, 2015, 9:44 am

Well said!

There seems to be no end to the amount of money that cities are willing to throw at hockey / ice rinks, but I wonder what percent of the metro population has actually strapped on a pair of skates in the last 3-5 years. It goes well beyond hockey too, evidenced in the calls for there to be ice skating features on the new Nicollet Mall, in the "park" feature of the Gateway development, at the new Downtown Commons Park, etc. It's like there's an unwritten rule that every project rendering ever must include ice skating to remind people that it's in Minnesota, when I doubt very many people actually participate in said activity. And your point about hockey being pretty exclusive to upper-middle class to wealthy families is a good one; ice time and hockey equipment are not cheap.

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Re: St. Louis Park - General Topics

Postby MNdible » March 2nd, 2015, 10:08 am

I think a line can be drawn between hockey-specific ice and general recreation ice. While hockey can indeed be a very expensive and intensive sport (although it doesn't have to be), recreational skating is an inexpensive and low-intensity activity. It might be true that not as many people skate as should, but it's a great opportunity to activate some public spaces during the winter season.

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Re: St. Louis Park - General Topics

Postby Anondson » March 2nd, 2015, 10:09 am

Nice, Sara. There will be no fury like hockey family fury.

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Re: St. Louis Park - General Topics

Postby xandrex » March 2nd, 2015, 4:34 pm

While dollars do indeed represent priorities, $4.5 million seems like a relatively paltry amount to spend, given what we drop on other things. Hockey is indeed expensive, especially in the metro. I grew up playing hockey for some number of years near the Duluth area, where it’s not quite as crazy expensive (but people are crazy about it). It seems particularly expensive in the metro because every year is new gear, summer camps, and dryland practices for the super intense hockey crowd.

Facilities like this get people out during our cold months and can provide a lot more than a rink for a hockey team to practice on – rink ratting requires a pair of skates, a tennis ball, and a stick; plenty of people go to open skating events.

I suppose I haven’t really been paying attention to this development, but is it really an either-or situation? Money won’t be spent on any other recreational stuff that others can use if this is built? We regularly spend a lot more money on wide roads that annually cost a lot more than a hockey rink. Isn’t that a better source to get the money than a place where people can recreate/exercise/socialize?

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Re: St. Louis Park - General Topics

Postby Mikey » March 2nd, 2015, 5:11 pm

I'd have to agree. Hockey can be expensive, but it doesn't have to be. During my childhood in Thief River in the 80's, there were 2 city-maintained rinks set up on vacant lots every year within half a mile if my house. We had a rink at our elementary school. They were for family skating and for pond hockey without the pond. No zambonis ever cleaned up the ice all winter - the city just sprayed more water on them every now and then - if even that.

I think this outdoor rink may be more an answer to our "unsettled" winter weather of the last several years than purely for upper class hockey moms.
Urbanist in the north woods

bapster2006
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Re: St. Louis Park - General Topics

Postby bapster2006 » March 2nd, 2015, 5:28 pm

I had talked to the city guy about this and the rink area will have different events all year round.

Sara Bergen

Re: St. Louis Park - General Topics

Postby Sara Bergen » March 2nd, 2015, 7:08 pm

The current two indoor rinks have 4.5 hours per week of "open skate". The other discussed events that will be held "year round" include rummage sales, pet shows, car shows, and artificial turf for other sports. None of these events require a refrigerated ice rink. This ice rink is not going to be for pick up games or for anyone who happens to wander over---it is going to be for hockey association members. If the City wanted to do a truly public space that included a recreational rink--fine. But that is not what this is. In addition to the roughly $9,000 capital investment for each hockey association family, there will also be annual operation subsidies that primarily benefit hockey association families.

I don't believe that municipal recreational outlays should necessarily pay for themselves. Often the best ones don't (mpls kiddie pools). But this money is not going to produce wide-spread community benefit, it is mostly going to benefit hockey association families. The City should be spending its money on recreational opportunities that have much fewer barriers to entry. For instance, playing basketball only requires shoes. Playing chess only requires a teacher--no special equipment. I could say a lot more but am off to testify in support of the connect the park! plan to build more sidewalks---a perfect example of an equitable investment that benefits anyone with a pair of shoes.

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Re: St. Louis Park - General Topics

Postby Anondson » March 2nd, 2015, 7:29 pm

Argh. I forgot about the connect the park!

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Re: St. Louis Park - General Topics

Postby Anondson » March 2nd, 2015, 7:40 pm

Sara, if you see this, advocate for putting parking lanes between the bike lanes and the traffic lanes. On Texas the city is proposing putting the bike lanes between parking lanes and traffic lanes. Grrrr.

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Re: St. Louis Park - General Topics

Postby fehler » March 2nd, 2015, 9:34 pm

While I understand some of the feelings against indoor ice arenas, the fact is if its not built, hockey and other ice sports will be even more exclusive, and more out of reach to the local community. So long as their is some kind of scholarship/support program for youth hockey (and other sports) in place, and a strong desire for adult/recreational leagues to cover some of the larger costs, and foundational support, than there is nothing wrong with indoor ice. Not building indoor ice will only make the problem worse.

Support only low-cost activities for youth, and we will end up with limited options and bored kids.

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Re: St. Louis Park - General Topics

Postby Anondson » March 4th, 2015, 1:31 pm

Very large warehouse in SLP, near LA Fitness and the future Belt Line LRT station, just bought for $10.3MM

http://m.bizjournals.com/twincities/mor ... tml?r=full

Future redevelopment?

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Re: St. Louis Park - General Topics

Postby Anondson » March 11th, 2015, 5:19 pm


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Re: St. Louis Park - General Topics

Postby sdho » March 11th, 2015, 7:18 pm

I'm convinced that the single greatest factor determining whether you want a sidewalk in front of your house is whether there is a sidewalk there now. If it's there now, you either don't care, or think it's great. (At most, you might bemoan it when you get assessed for its repair.) But if it's not there, so often you either don't want sidewalks in "your" yard at all, or perhaps just want the sidewalks somewhere else. "It's perfectly safe to walk in the street," you say, despite having not walked anywhere in your neighborhood without a dog leash in hand for six months.

I actually do agree with a couple quoted critics here. Cities often prioritize dead-straight sidewalks over retaining trees, and I think that's a mistake (at least for sidewalks-- perhaps not trails). And Maplewood, while not ordinarily a template for urban design, does actually have an awesome Living Streets policy, and at least a couple of good neighborhood streets that have been built under it. Those streets are dramatically narrower than we see in most of the metro; include sidewalk on at least one side; manage their own stormwater; and include lots of green space. That is a quantum leap above what almost any other city's standard design is. (Except perhaps the sidewalk on one vs. both side issue.)

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Re: St. Louis Park - General Topics

Postby Anondson » March 11th, 2015, 7:40 pm

There is a lot to unpack in that article. But with regard to the straight sidewalks vs. mature trees, I recall last year when SLP city council discussed the round of sidewalks betting installed in 2014, city staff said they weighed the proposition of going around the tree. In certain cases, there wasn't enough room within city ROW. In other cases the city was committing to clear the sidewalks and the machine to clear the sidewalks isn't terribly maneuverable and work best on straight runs. The more curves put in end up with the machine gouging out lawns and gardens, as well as slow down the snow removal while the operator eases up to stay on the pavement in the curve.

I'm not sure which, if any, of these proposed this year have the city committing to clear them too.

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Re: St. Louis Park - General Topics

Postby sdho » March 11th, 2015, 8:16 pm

Right, but I think you need buy-in from the neighbors who want to keep the tree. Like, being willing to shovel themselves (which I believe SLP requires for most minor residential sidewalks?) and granting a sidewalk easement so that the ROW isn't an absolute limit.

Personally, I'd gladly trade a few feet of my actual yard to be able to save a boulevard tree I love.


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