urbanMSP

Thanks everybody for playing your roles in PigsEye's trolling perfectly.

Thanks everybody for playing your roles in PigsEye's trolling perfectly.

Sorry for asking questions. I'll stop now.

Thanks everybody for playing your roles in PigsEye's trolling perfectly.

Sorry for asking questions. I'll stop now.

I guess I'd believe that more if you had really been "asking questions". But most of what you were doing was rehashing a ton of rhetoric from years gone past. It's okay to have your opinion, but with the legislation passed in 2012, it's really a moot point to bring it up on this thread. I guess Anything Goes may be a better place to rehash this topic - in fact, I believe there is a thread there for this already.

Complaining about rehashing a topic for the 1000th time is just as asinine as rehashing a topic for the 1000th time, right?

Lol, complaining about complaining about rehashing the topic for the x-teenth time... you get it.

Go Vikes!

Lol, complaining about complaining about rehashing the topic for the x-teenth time... you get it.

Go Vikes!

That I can understand! Go Vikes! ...well except for Jabari Price

Great pics!

Lol, complaining about complaining about rehashing the topic for the x-teenth time... you get it.

Go Vikes!

That I can understand! Go Vikes! ...well except for Jabari Price

Even if the City of Minneapolis / State of Minnesota lose money on the stadium itself, it would still be what the marketing world calls a "loss leader." The Vikings are a bona fide NFL team at a time when - like it not - the NFL is the premier American sport bar none. Televising the NFL draft has for two consecutive years outdrawn both NBA and NHL playoffs combined. Losing an NFL team would put the Twin Cities in a second tier class - and one in which it lost an NFL franchise. Doesn't matter whether you agree or disagree with it - that's the way it is in today's America. Thats what politicians deep down understood. Minneapolis is not Los Angeles. No matter what people said, had they lost the premier sports franchise in Minnesota, they would have been dirt. They would be the people who would be blamed for losing the Vikings - and deep down everyone knows - or should know - that this would not be forgiven when the reality burned in.

It may take time to pay off but that facility will be a major draw because it can attract top tier events - that brings in top tier media that can showcase Minneapolis and Minnesota. Something the dome ceased to be able to do by the early '90s. It has already attracted $1 billion in construction around it and brought in a Superbowl, a Final Four, and is in the running for other major events (NCAA Football Championship). That brings major money and free media attention to Minneapolis in the offseason. So much so that US Bank is willing to ride on the draft of that attention by spending $200 million in naming rights.

The Vikings are overseeing the construction of a world class stadium. That is something that, along with Target Field, Minnesota hasn't been willing to do since both those franchises began operations in the early '60's.

Whatever the Wilfs got in the deal, they did it through negotiations. If the State Legislature or City of Minneapolis got outmaneuvered - it was all in the open and bargained for - that is there problem. There is nothing about what the Wilfs got in negotiations that were not in line with what other NLF owners get and expect to get. Don't like it (and I am not sure I do), too bad. From the beginning, the Wilfs contributed more money than the State and the City and they've dramatically increased their contribution to ensure that the facility opens as a premier venue. The are putting over half a billion into downtown Minneapolis. They put their money where their mouth is. The fact that they have a business plan that can monetize their NFL brand is a good thing that allows them to rapidly pay down their financial commitments. This is the power of an NFL franchise.

I don't understand why the Wilfs are so loathed in the local Minneapolis area and made the objects of such unwarranted derision. The Vikings ownership is doing what NFL owners do across the board. They could double their margins by simply moving to LA. (Don't believe it, just look at the panic in two successful franchises - St. Louis and San Diego - as the NFL is openly seeking to rip them from their locations to move to L.A.)

The Vikings can make money because the NFL franchises are worth a lot of money. Yes, the NFL is a business that is in the business of making money. As the NFL is entertainment, the only people getting fleeced are those who want to attend games and are willing to pay. Who is being hurt by seat licenses or naming rights?

As with other downtown development, Minneapolis is making its move to ascend in the American cities pecking order. Losing an NFL franchise would seriously set that back. Keeping them and integrating them into a truly revitalized downtown that includes a world class sports facilities is easily worth the price of the stadium - and it will be paid off.

Just ask yourselves, would he Nicollet Mall be fast tracked if there was no future Superbowl (would it really even be revitalized at all on the scale it is)? Would there be a central city Wells Fargo project or a new urban park? Would Minneapolis really be able to draw young professionals to live downtown without major sporting events? Don't kid yourselves. And stop whining. Being able to support professional sports is the cost of being an upper tier city.

Listening to populist whining is worse than having teeth pulled. You want major league sports, and top tear cities do, you have to cowboy up. Minnesota did. They will be better for it. Just ponder the alternative.

Let's all admit one thing that can be safely assumed, I think: The surrounding long lasting development of the WF towers, the apartments that come along with them, the Commons Park, the Thresher Square rehab, the Armory rehab, all future development 2-5 years down the line on nearby parking lots or obsolete properties, these are all happening SOONER because of the stadium development. Would these things have happened eventually given the wonderful renewed demand for downtown living? Sure. Only after after the majority of opportunities in the Downtown Core and the North Loop had been exhausted. The stadium sped up the process dramatically. This part of downtown was dead. Not really any way to argue that point. I'm sure with all of the angst that has just resurfaced someone will take issue with this statement, and I welcome CONSTRUCTIVE criticisms and debate. This forum should be about that, not snark, not personal agendas. Can we please ALL attempt to regain a sense of decorum? Love the stadium, hate the stadium, I don't care. Just be a rational and respectful human being. That would be great.

Let's all admit one thing that can be safely assumed, I think: The surrounding long lasting development of the WF towers, the apartments that come along with them, the Commons Park, the Thresher Square rehab, the Armory rehab, all future development 2-5 years down the line on nearby parking lots or obsolete properties, these are all happening SOONER because of the stadium development. Would these things have happened eventually given the wonderful renewed demand for downtown living? Sure. Only after after the majority of opportunities in the Downtown Core and the North Loop had been exhausted. The stadium sped up the process dramatically. This part of downtown was dead. Not really any way to argue that point. I'm sure with all of the angst that has just resurfaced someone will take issue with this statement, and I welcome CONSTRUCTIVE criticisms and debate. This forum should be about that, not snark, not personal agendas. Can we please ALL attempt to regain a sense of decorum? Love the stadium, hate the stadium, I don't care. Just be a rational and respectful human being. That would be great.

You hit the nail on the head. I can't fault you on anything that you said. I will add that there will be a large increase in the tax base for the city of MPLS and that should help keep property taxes from rising or at least rising very fast for residential tax payers. These will be tax dollars soon, and not a decade or more down the road.

You stadium deal apologists should take your BS justifications to the thread in Anything Goes.

You seem like a broken record Matt. Isn't it fitting that the person that seems like the biggest opponent of this stadium is also a packers fan? Meh.

Let's all admit one thing that can be safely assumed, I think: The surrounding long lasting development of the WF towers, the apartments that come along with them, the Commons Park, the Thresher Square rehab, the Armory rehab, all future development 2-5 years down the line on nearby parking lots or obsolete properties, these are all happening SOONER because of the stadium development. Would these things have happened eventually given the wonderful renewed demand for downtown living? Sure. Only after after the majority of opportunities in the Downtown Core and the North Loop had been exhausted. The stadium sped up the process dramatically. This part of downtown was dead. Not really any way to argue that point. I'm sure with all of the angst that has just resurfaced someone will take issue with this statement, and I welcome CONSTRUCTIVE criticisms and debate. This forum should be about that, not snark, not personal agendas. Can we please ALL attempt to regain a sense of decorum? Love the stadium, hate the stadium, I don't care. Just be a rational and respectful human being. That would be great.

Not sure a 1 billion dollar investment in a stadium would sound "more" justifiable for in your own words speeding up an already inevitable development of status less than fitting of downtown. Maybe if a development such as 4 Marq was located here then yes, that would be worth making a footnote. Yet, a 6 floor building and two mid-size wells fargo towers not the most impressive with 1 billion investment. Sure the money invested could have been better used.

The Vikings are not a winning team, the only thing they rank 1st in are most arrests for a NFL sports team. It will be nice to see the Super Bowl hosted here. Can the Vikings be whipped into shape to make it to a Super Bowl? I'm not a sports guy so I don't know, but when the Twins got their stadium did they start playing better? Are we projecting the new stadium will be able to help the team gain support and funds to improve?

Serious question... but what are the odds that the Vikings would make it to the super bowl in 2018? Is there a chance?

Not sure a 1 billion dollar investment in a stadium would sound "more" justifiable for in your own words speeding up an already inevitable development of status less than fitting of downtown. Maybe if a development such as 4 Marq was located here then yes, that would be worth making a footnote. Yet, a 6 floor building and two mid-size wells fargo towers not the most impressive with 1 billion investment. Sure the money invested could have been better used.

The Vikings are not a winning team, the only thing they rank 1st in are most arrests for a NFL sports team. It will be nice to see the Super Bowl hosted here. Can the Vikings be whipped into shape to make it to a Super Bowl? I'm not a sports guy so I don't know, but when the Twins got their stadium did they start playing better? Are we projecting the new stadium will be able to help the team gain support and funds to improve?

Serious question... but what are the odds that the Vikings would make it to the super bowl in 2018? Is there a chance?

Who is making the $1 billon investment? The public investment isn't making a billion dollar investment. I think it's around half that. The odds of the Vikings going to the Super Bowl this year are 25 to 1. The team in 2018 should be similar, so likely around 25 to 1 as well.

You stadium deal apologists should take your BS justifications to the thread in Anything Goes.

Now you are learning what we deal with when you repeat yourself time and time again. When are you going to demand that there be 4 two way streets surrounding the stadium? That is your big thing???????

Cash and secrecy. #shocked
http://www.startribune.com/local-stadiu ... 318595581/

Cash and secrecy. #shocked
http://www.startribune.com/local-stadiu ... 318595581/

I don't think we know the details of any of the Vikings sponsorship relationships.

I don't think we know the details of any of the Vikings sponsorship relationships.

We barely know the details of the Taxpayer-Vikings sponsorship relationship.

The Dick Florida on stadium subsidies over at Citylab.

http://www.citylab.com/politics/2015/09 ... le/403666/