urbanMSP

Also remember they are only 8% done with the design phase. My daughter and I liked the idea of the glass cafe (or tourist information store) under the new skyway steps. I think a cafe with outdoor seating in the summer is a great idea (as they showed there is already a cafe under the Hi Line in nyc that is the same size as a would be cafe in that location).

schmitzm03 - I'm not familiar with Denver's 16th St mall but are there busses that travel along the mall or is it a strictly pedestrian mall like the name implies? I ask because I'm NOT a fan of the busses on Nicollet but I can't focus on that since it's clear the city loves busses on this street and no amount of complaining is going to change that.

Indeed there are busses.

Technically I believe that is incorrect. 16th St Mall only has the Free Mall ride bus which is a electric bus that carries people from one side of the mall to the other. There is no true city buses on the 16th St Mall

i really hate buses on the mall, detracts from what the street could be..truly a pedestrian street in the european tradition. a great walking street. but we just love our buses here and god forbid people have to get off and on at another location.

ps i ride the bus every day and have all my life. not anti bus. just hate them on the "mall".

Streetview of 16th Street Mall in Denver: http://goo.gl/maps/wE9c6

Overall I love the design but the narrow sidewalks and center islands could put a damper on some of the wonderful sidewalk cafes along the mall but then again it appears they are placed where none are currently existing. I too say either go with streetcars or buses - one or the other. Both are too much.

Really super excited though and glad they went with James Cornfield (sp?). Sorry too early!

i really hate buses on the mall, detracts from what the street could be..truly a pedestrian street in the european tradition. a great walking street. but we just love our buses here and god forbid people have to get off and on at another location.

ps i ride the bus every day and have all my life. not anti bus. just hate them on the "mall".

I agree. I HATE having buses on this street and not sure why it's so important to keep them running on Nicollet but we've lost that battle. I'm really looking forward to the 'new' Nicollet Mall.

It all sounds "okay" in theory, but I am struggling to see the feasibility in this. The ice rink idea is just plain stupid, the new exterior entrances for the retail centers are no brainers, and from what I understand the sidewalks are going to be drastically reduced in width.

And then to name the whole thing "Nicollet Island" just shows the designer knows so little about Minneapolis, he doesn't even know there is a real Nicollet Island about a mile north. I don't know why but that duplication bothered me big time.

Seems Denver's 16th street mall has less of the canyon environment that Minneapolis unwisely allowed to develop in the Nicollet midblock. By the look it felt like 16th might be a tidbit wider.

I hope Opus takes the daring opportunity to step their proposed development back above the fourth or fifth stories, and put in some ground plaza space which restaurants would use for seating.

Also remember they are only 8% done with the design phase. My daughter and I liked the idea of the glass cafe (or tourist information store) under the new skyway steps. I think a cafe with outdoor seating in the summer is a great idea (as they showed there is already a cafe under the Hi Line in nyc that is the same size as a would be cafe in that location).

I like that a lot. And a couple skyways with direct access to the Mall with cafes underneath sounds promising. There are some great ideas for this project. The view of the mall looking northward by the Library look beautiful and realistic. This should be carried through for the rest of the project. Forget the silly gimmick of the center islands. It will be a huge a costly mistake. Spend the money on improving the quality and durability of other elements in the design to make this renovation last.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but are the islands not a requirement for stairs from the skyway with cafes underneath? Or should the stairs/cafes be offset to one side?

These stairs/seats/something-underneath have tons of traffic on either side, yet they feel very cool and very alive.



I know Nicollet Mall isn't Times Square. Duh. But I think these islands could work and I don't think that a single lane of electric bus and/or streetcar on either side is enough to ruin the experience.

we just love our buses here and god forbid people have to get off and on at another location.

My god I wish I lived in the city you live in. The reason the buses haven't been moved is that moving them anywhere else would either decimate ridership by requiring substantial detours or reduce the street they're rerouted on to a crawl between 6am & 8pm. You could try contributing constructively to a conversation for once by suggesting an alternative where that wouldn't happen.

Please visit this site often for exciting updates, news and developments!

It's outrageous that the images from the presentation were posted on startribune.com but not yet on the website for the project itself. For this and several other infractions the consultant the city has managing this project (McFarland Comm, undoubtedly connected to the Downtown Council; I'm not talking about James Cornfield) should be fired.

Those islands at Times Square are also much wider, and there is still plenty of space on the sidewalks. Nicollet Mall is too narrow for this to work properly. The sidewalks arent wide enough the way it is for a true mall. Split up the driving lanes and it becomes even more scarce for pedestrian space on the true sidewalks.

Please visit this site often for exciting updates, news and developments!

It's outrageous that the images from the presentation were posted on startribune.com but not yet on the website for the project itself. For this and several other infractions the consultant the city has managing this project (McFarland Comm, undoubtedly connected to the Downtown Council; I'm not talking about James Cornfield) should be fired.

But they took the time to change the header image on their home page
Seriously, that web site is an embarrassment. It's not helping the sales job of this project at all.

One thing missing in the renderings: overhead wire.

All together now *James Corner Field*

Idea - During reconstruction of Nicollet Mall:
1. Reroute buses to Hennepin.
2. Close Hennepin to through traffic for that one year to prevent terrible degradation of transit service, essentially making Hennepin a temporary ped/transit/bike mall.
3. Watch what happens.

Those islands at Times Square are also much wider, and there is still plenty of space on the sidewalks. Nicollet Mall is too narrow for this to work properly. The sidewalks arent wide enough the way it is for a true mall. Split up the driving lanes and it becomes even more scarce for pedestrian space on the true sidewalks.

Could it be cramped? Sure. I know we're not dealing with NY-scale ROW, but we're also not dealing with NY-scale person counts. I was simply pointing out that "who wants to sit on steps with stinky busses on either side?" is a no-go for me. I'd sit on those steps with electric streetcars moving slowly on either side. Why not?

David Frank was shockingly non-committal towards the streetcar, especially considering Peter Wagenius was in the front row.
The way the City has been selling it, you'd think it was a done deal. I think the streetcar is further away than any of us might think.
He did say that even if we do get a streetcar, there will still be buses.

But you're right, they should have at least shown a rendering that includes overhead wires (which could/should be used for hybrid-electric buses as well)

Buses are easily the worst aspect of the mall right now for me. They're loud, spew fumes and pile up 4 deep constantly. No one is going to go on that center island when they have to dodge buses constantly. Also is this planning in conjunction with the street car? Or is that later and they will have to rebuild the street again?