urbanMSP

As much as I love the idea of lids they just don't make a ton of sense (as fantasized at least). These ideas work in places with low or no adjacent options for development on under-utilized lots, and both DTE and St. Paul both have a bevy of surface parking that still remains undeveloped. Why would a developer opt to build out expensive land on a freeway lid when they could simply build for less on a nearby surface lot? The places where lids are a reality (or in progress) have a.) higher land values for whatever reason, and b.) few if any developable parcels in the general vicinity.

It's gotta make dollars for it to make sense (pun intended).

You have to keep in mind, though, that a freeway lid can make adjacent parcels more attractive for development. No one wants to build right next to an urban freeway trench.

Exactly ... it would have to be part of a grander development plan. I don't think there's any question that surrounding values would improve, but you still have to convince them of this and somehow get money to pay for it in the here and now. Let's hope we have decision makers with this kind of long-term vision.

holidazzle village. why are they charging an entrance fee for the market? chicago's is free admission.
http://www.startribune.com/local/blogs/277076121.html

holidazzle village. why are they charging an entrance fee for the market? chicago's is free admission.
http://www.startribune.com/local/blogs/277076121.html

I thought the same thing. I think that's a big mistake...

Probably downtown business interests' way to keep "the wrong kind of people" out.

Probably downtown business interests' way to keep "the wrong kind of people" out.

BINGO!!

they supposedly studied the christmas markets in chicago and various cities. charging just to enter this area in order to make purchases is not good marketing.

It's unfortunate, but I"m guessing this will be a flop... especially with the admission. I love the idea, but unless it's SUPER themed and there are shows, and things to do, I don't think charge (even if it's small) is a good idea. I mean what family of 6 is going to want to drive up from the suburbs, pay $36 to get them all in, and then only really have shopping inside. I dunno, we'll see!

I mean what family of 6 is going to want to drive up from the suburbs, pay $36 to get them all in

Plus the cost of parking and having to deal with the insane crowds.

They've gotta cut the admission or this definitely won't be good.

Having attended the Chicago Christkindlmarkt each of the 5 winters I lived there, I can assure everyone that as long as they're selling mulled wine, the Minneapolis version will be a success.

There's probably marketing research on this kind of thing, but whenever I feel like an event is 'spending money to spend money' my rip-off meter goes off the charts and I stay away hard.

Isn't this approach basically what killed the Taste of Minnesota? Charge to keep riff-raff out, but end up killing the event in total (or at least killing it in any recognizable form)?

There's probably marketing research on this kind of thing, but whenever I feel like an event is 'spending money to spend money' my rip-off meter goes off the charts and I stay away hard.

Isn't this approach basically what killed the Taste of Minnesota? Charge to keep riff-raff out, but end up killing the event in total (or at least killing it in any recognizable form)?

I think Taste died under the weight of too much administrative costs, expensive shows, and same food that you could buy elsewhere for less. the food was never anything very special that I can remember. The real spike was the lousy weather that they for a couple years in a row. Rains, floods, and extreme temperatures can keep people away!

Needless to say that blizzards and extreme cold can do the same here. It might last one or two years due to the novelty factor. After that it will be a "Been there, Done that, why do it again"thing.

Probably downtown business interests' way to keep "the wrong kind of people" out.

It quotes that the funds are necessary to leverage private interests' investment (in other words, it backs their investment with some guaranteed revenue). Whether that keeps the "wrong" people out or not remains to be seen -- it surely doesn't seem to do that at casinos, and $3-$6 per person (kids/adults) isn't necessarily a deal-breaker for most people who are used to paying triple that for the State Fair (for example).

However, I tend to agree that free is the better way to go, especially when a hot dog will cost $6 and a beer (if they're smart enough to serve it) will cost $11!

Probably downtown business interests' way to keep "the wrong kind of people" out.

It quotes that the funds are necessary to leverage private interests' investment (in other words, it backs their investment with some guaranteed revenue). Whether that keeps the "wrong" people out or not remains to be seen -- it surely doesn't seem to do that at casinos, and $3-$6 per person (kids/adults) isn't necessarily a deal-breaker for most people who are used to paying triple that for the State Fair (for example).

However, I tend to agree that free is the better way to go, especially when a hot dog will cost $6 and a beer (if they're smart enough to serve it) will cost $11!

I'm more for alcohol infused hot chocolate or hot cider myself!

holidazzle village. why are they charging an entrance fee for the market? chicago's is free admission.
http://www.startribune.com/local/blogs/277076121.html

I was in Paris, France just before Christmas last year. There were Christmas Markets everywhere! Apparently it's a really big thing over there. My wife wanted to stop at every single one. If they had charged admission it would have been a non-starter. No way! Since it was more like a Winter Farmers Market with an emphasis on goodies, hot wine and gifts, we browsed through almost every time. We purchased something from at least one stand every time too.

I'm against the admission fee. Bad idea.

I went to the Brussels Christmas Market with my now wife. We loved every minute of it. There was no fee. Let me see if I can dig up some pictures...

Did both the Salzburg and Vienna markets with my parents and brother back in '04. Amazing experience.

After reading more, I got some clarification.

The Villiage between 10th & 12th will be free. The one-time fee will grant season-long access to the Christmas Market in Peavey Plaza. Not that this makes it entirely better - but it's better than I thought (of paying the fee each/any time I went).

Highlights from the press release:
http://www.downtownmpls.com/news_articl ... _id=229215

"Holidazzle Village, located on Nicollet Mall from 12th Street to 10th Street, is free to the public and will give a fresh feel to the Holidazzle experience. The Holidazzle Village will include a variety of entertainment opportunities and festivities for all ages to enjoy throughout the season."

Minneapolis Christmas Market, located at Peavey Plaza on the corner of 11th Street and Nicollet Mall, is modeled as a traditional open-air, German-style Christmas Market and will be the cornerstone of the new Holidazzle Village experience. The Minneapolis Christmas Market will be open daily from November 28-December 24 from 11 a.m.-9 p.m. There will be a small, one- time fee between $3-$6 to enter the Minneapolis Christmas Market, which will grant season-long access.

How will they track if you've paid or not? Either they're tracking somehow, at which point the administrative overhead (someone checking IDs and referencing paid customers) must surely wipe out the money gained, or you get some admission token you have to keep, and what are the odds people are going to actually hold on to that all season?