Let's establish some rules on rumors?

[FISHMANPET]

All I see is "insiders" post rumors and then get upset when we don't all worship the poster and take everything they say as fact.

[holmstar]

All I see is "insiders" post rumors and then get upset when we don't all worship the poster and take everything they say as fact.

One doesn't need to worship someone to make them feel they are providing value, nor directly attack them to make them feel worthless. There's a whole lot in between. But this is getting somewhat off-topic.

Would a poll be useful in determining what (if anything) should be done to better organize/integrate rumors? It seems that there's a wide variety of opinions.

[FISHMANPET]

Doubting is not attacking.

[Tyler]

I've come to realize that the "issue" is simply that a few members lack basic Interpersonal skills. Not a whole lot to do about that...

[IllogicalJake]

I've come to realize that the "issue" is simply that a few members lack basic Interpersonal skills. Not a whole lot to do about that...

Yeah, and I'll just settle with that. This was a bad idea trying to create an environment where both sides can discuss things without arguments but that's clearly not wanted here.

I thought MSP had a better to urban development community when I moved here, I really did. In the past I've worked with close knit groups. Not just forums, but people that organize and show up at places, demonstrate, do actual things to promote a better community.

That ain't this. I've never seen a community of urban development enthusiasts that want to be divided so bad. I prefer unity to make voices heard and get shit done. Better to not do anything that makes people villify you or call you a dick. I went too activist hoping for a more unified community and it was horrible idea. Quiet observing is better here.

[Nathan]

Oh for fuck's sake.....I have never seen a site like this (ArchBoston, SSP, SSC, UrbanNYC, etc) who's member's have such a stick up their ass about rumors. Like, really? It bothers some of you SO much there needs to be ground rules about them? And then you actually question and wonder why this place has the reputation it has among former members who have moved onto some of the aforementioned places.

If a rumor bothers you so much either ignore it or maybe re-evalute your life. Whichever of those two is easier for you.

Sounds to me someone has a stick up their own as a because this site isn't just like everything else they like. Maybe if you don't like the concept re evaluate your life and don't be a dick on intent forums.

[grant1simons2]

Doubting is not attacking.

If you've received information from a trusted person who works in the development business and you decide to tell people on the forum, and they don't believe you, that sucks. That's like being told you just got a promotion at work, going home, and being told that you didn't. It makes people feel untrusted and that at times feels bad. Even people who actually have direct connection to these issues such as RetiredBanker. If he was called a liar or doubted, a person in the works being doubted by people on the internet, how do you think you'd feel? Trying to help someone and then being doubted when you're working hard to make it happen.

[FISHMANPET]

If people think being called a liar and being doubted then boy I don't know.

If someone is privy to some secret nugget of knowledge, they can just choose not to reveal it. If they do choose to reveal it, they have to do it in a way that's vague and misdirecting.

And the doubt isn't over if the person sharing the rumor is lying or not, it's if the information will come true. Nick has been thinking about getting a cat forever, and if he shared that it would be a true fact and he would not be lying. But I would be doubtful that he would actually get a cat.

So, doubt does not mean someone is lying. Skepticism over a rumor doesn't mean someone thinks the person telling it is lying, it means they're skeptical that it will end up happening.

[IllogicalJake]

Doubting is not attacking.

If you've received information from a trusted person who works in the development business and you decide to tell people on the forum, and they don't believe you, that sucks. That's like being told you just got a promotion at work, going home, and being told that you didn't. It makes people feel untrusted and that at times feels bad. Even people who actually have direct connection to these issues such as RetiredBanker. If he was called a liar or doubted, a person in the works being doubted by people on the internet, how do you think you'd feel? Trying to help someone and then being doubted when you're working hard to make it happen.

It's really not that people don't believe them – I think people are welcome to decide what they believe and don't. It's that those that don't would rather make a villain out of the person posting it, start a fight, then some gossiping on another board, then some more drama... instead of just ignoring it.

[FISHMANPET]

Where are we vilifying people that post rumors? All the vilification is directed at people that are skeptical.

The rumor fetishes that some people have is just bizarre to me.

[IllogicalJake]

Where are we vilifying people that post rumors? All the vilification is directed at people that are skeptical.

The rumor fetishes that some people have is just bizarre to me.

I don't even like rumors. I just wanted this damn argument to stop. It happens everywhere and never changes.

But to say they've never been villified, hell people talk shit about them here all the time. That's villifying.

[David Greene]

?? What are you talking about? I honestly want to know specifics. No one here begrudges anyone posting rumors.

I think people that doubt or question rumors are begrudged far more than the people that post rumors, yet somehow the doubters are viewed as aggressors and the rumor posters are viewed as victims, when it's the rumor posters doing the vilification.

Wow. You really can't see how people who post rumors here are often treated?

No, I can't. I'm honestly asking for helping seeing it.

[Wedgeguy]

Can we lock this thread!! All I see is 2 views of "Is the glass half full or half empty". No one want to see that there are 2 views and this discussion has gotten to the absurd. Moderator please lock this. This is doing nothing positive for this site!

[Nathan]

Doubting is not attacking.

If you've received information from a trusted person who works in the development business and you decide to tell people on the forum, and they don't believe you, that sucks. That's like being told you just got a promotion at work, going home, and being told that you didn't. It makes people feel untrusted and that at times feels bad. Even people who actually have direct connection to these issues such as RetiredBanker. If he was called a liar or doubted, a person in the works being doubted by people on the internet, how do you think you'd feel? Trying to help someone and then being doubted when you're working hard to make it happen.

It's not like that at all. It's like if your assistant manager tells you for a month you are going to geta promotion but never confirmed it with your actual boss, so for 2 months you have been telling everyone you're getting a promotion when in reality your actual boss was never considering it.

[Tyler]

To pull a page from Nick's playbook:

Where are we vilifying people that post rumors? All the vilification is directed at people that are skeptical.
The rumor fetishes that some people have is just bizarre to me.

lol. https://forum.streets.mn/viewtopic.php?f ... =40#p68966

[IllogicalJake]

Can we lock this thread!! All I see is 2 views of "Is the glass half full or half empty". No one want to see that there are 2 views and this discussion has gotten to the absurd. Moderator please lock this. This is doing nothing positive for this site!

I agree at this point. Let's close this.

[fehler]

TL;DR.

[mattaudio]

^what fehler said

[David Greene]

I think it would be appropriate for a sub thread to be stickied at the top of projects with a lot of speculation going on. The general thread being what we know and the subthread being speculation.

This sounds like a good implementation of holmstar's idea. This keeps the rumors organized by project while clearly indicating which posts are more rumor-ish.

I'm assuming we'd still have a general rumors thread for rumors that are not project-specific or cover projects that don't otherwise have threads dedicated to them.

[IllogicalJake]

I think it would be appropriate for a sub thread to be stickied at the top of projects with a lot of speculation going on. The general thread being what we know and the subthread being speculation.

This sounds like a good implementation of holmstar's idea. This keeps the rumors organized by project while clearly indicating which posts are more rumor-ish.

I'm assuming we'd still have a general rumors thread for rumors that are not project-specific or cover projects that don't otherwise have threads dedicated to them.

This kinda solution is all I was trying to propose. Maybe I was too wordy with it.