urbanMSP

C'mon. It's not a beautiful thing but it's on the outskirts of downtown and will bring in a ton of new residents and tax base.


True - but why the bitchiness?

We also know what comes out of putting and allowing big bulky poorly thought out structures on what we think are the outskirts of the "city" A B and C ramps, the HERC, all of the ramps in dte... if there ever is an interstate cap this will be right in the middle of the city along the river between the university/cedar riverside and the cbd... I don't think location is ever an excuse for mediocrity in our downtown. It's not pretty, but yes the utility is there.

Is this within the restricted height zone in the Mills District, or is it outside of it?

It is within the Downtown Height area. But I think they'll meet all the CUP requirements so it's not even a big deal.

i wish it was two buildings.

Is this within the restricted height zone in the Mills District, or is it outside of it?

I believe this height restriction ends at 10th or 11th.

I thought that limit wasn't here, too. Plus, I also wish this we at least two separate buildings. Tall wall along the riverfront isn't ideal.

Sure, we know he has his math that makes these build out like these do. A 15-story wall on the river is unfortunate.

Wall facing the river=more riverfront views=better sales price of condos. I'm fine with it. Condo's are badly needed in this market.

Condos are needed, but that's a bit of a non sequitur to the complaint of it being a massive wall. If this is outside the height limited district, do two slender, taller structures in the vein of the construction going up across the river.

Conditional Use Permit to increase the height of the building from 6 stories/84 feet to 14
stories/approximately 255 feet

So, this is within the height limit zone? kiss those tower dreams goodbye. This is is already pushing the boundaries of what the heightmongers will allow here. Better to let him build it and get the maximum amount of units he can.

That's between Washington and 2nd, and ends at either 10th or 11th. It's confusing because there's Downtown Height, and this extra Mill District strip. The "max", (and I use that term loosely), height for this site is 8 stories. But really, a CUP will be easy for this site. I made a quick model and with the angle it's at, it'll blend nicely with Bridgewater. Those awful renderings are throwing people off of this.

The height is actually 155 feet....

Some construction equipment showed up on this site behind the building a few days ago. It's just been sitting there though.

Conditional Use Permit to increase the height of the building from 6 stories/84 feet to 14
stories/approximately 255 feet

So, this is within the height limit zone? kiss those tower dreams goodbye. This is is already pushing the boundaries of what the heightmongers will allow here. Better to let him build it and get the maximum amount of units he can.

You really have no idea what you are talking about. Height can always be increased by Conditional Use Permit. The 6 stories / 84 feet is the highest you can go in C3A zoning by right. Anything taller than that requires a CUP. The CUP simply means that certain conditions must be met. Legally/technically speaking, it is not at all the same thing as a variance. A variance means you are seeking exemption from the literal letter of the law. A Conditional Use generally means it is allowed, if conditions are met.

I have to agree with everyone saying this would be better as two separate buildings. It's hard to argue against that notion.

That said, given the unique location I don't think it's too harmful to any adjacent properties or to the area as a whole to reject it. I suppose one could make an argument that the wall effect is harmful to the two parcels along Washington that will hopefully also be redeveloped soon. Gonna be a lot harder for them to get any river views now, though it may have been a stretch already.


Legacy Condos surroundings by Matt Brillhart, on Flickr

Considering that the river is 100 feet down in a gorge at this point, those parcels were never going to get river views unless they were massively tall.

Mod note: Affordable housing discussion moved to Affordable Housing thread.

"River view" isn't a matter of seeing liquid flowing. If it were the "but mah river views" issue regarding development at the Ford site or the US Bank site on Shepard Road in Saint Paul would not exist. "River view" also extends to the gorge itself, its slopes, and the greenery growing up out of it.

It seems reasonable to assume that those two office buildings and their acres of parking will be redeveloped eventually, in which case Legacy and Stonebridge may lose their river views as well.

I agree. I would hope that property is developed as multiple, two or three buildings, instead of one wall. Having gaps allows residents behind to, in a way, share in the beauty a little more.