RBC Gateway & Four Seasons - 37 stories - 519'

[HiawathaGuy]

That street view certainly makes the base look like a trapezoid...

[Tyler]

Doran's has the diagonal crossing as well.

And good catch on that, HiawathaGuy. If you piece the two renderings together I'm pretty sure the tower is trapezoidal.

[acs]

Since it seems like it will be semi open/retractable, wouldn't it be cool if they ran the Streetcar right through the atrium of this thing?

[nBode]

The base certainly follows Hennepin, but that doesn't mean the tower does. (I agree that it should)
Has it been said whether or not this tower would include an observation deck? I've always wished MSP had a good one.
Also, that rooftop seating looks like it could have some pretty stellar views.

It would be cool, in theory, to put the streetcar through it. Not sure how practical that is. But having it run underneath/through the building in some manner would be kind of epic.

[twincitizen]

wouldn't it be cool if they ran the Streetcar right through the atrium of this thing?

Kinda, but that would require mid-block signals on Hennepin between Wash & 3rd to allow the streetcar to turn. Nobody wants that.

Since the diagonal crossing is out, the following options are available (or just go read the streetcar thread for the full plans): both directions of track on Washington, both directions of track on 3rd, or two possible variants of running one direction on 3rd and the other on Washington. Of those, I'd probably prefer the Washington option, as it would have the most straightforward station locations, placing both platforms on the Mall.

On the other hand, going with the "both directions on 3rd St" option would leave open the possibility of fully closing off and removing the Nicollet Mall "street", effectively merging the green space on this block with Marquette Plaza/Cancer Survivors, for one big park as was envisioned several years ago. The downside to this is less desirable platform locations and the necessity of adding a contraflow bus/streetcar lane to 3rd (and possible turn lane or arrow to SB Hennepin to allow that transit-only turning movement). For these reasons I find the "all 3rd Street" option less likely.

[Tyler]

The base certainly follows Hennepin, but that doesn't mean the tower does. (I agree that it should)

The rendering on the previous page show the base and tower with parallel faces. It's easy to see on strib image where you can super zoom, but that page is not loading for me right now.

[mattaudio]

Since the diagonal crossing is out,

Huh? Is that just because none of the RFPs really showed it? Didn't the United Properties RFP show a modified diagonal streetcar ROW through the NE corner of the block?

[acs]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B4r3VwjCUAALJjq.png

This is what I was referring to about running the streetcar through it. "[The Atrium] is unique in that it functions as a covered street allowing the plaza paving and elements to seamlessly flow in blurring the boundary between outside and in. It provides a sheltered location for hotel, restaurant and retail valet and transportation functions to take place during extreme weatherand but remains open most of the time..."

So my point was if a valet can pick up someone during extreme weather, that implies that it they could bring their car "indoors" so to speak. If a valet can do it, so can a streetcar.

[twincitizen]

matt: I meant besides United. Duval has been the primary focus of conversation here, especially the last page or so.

acs: Regarding the "woonerf" that wraps the base of the tower with apparent access to Washington and Hennepin, I'd guess that those curb cuts would be right-in, right-out only, if not a one-way (right-in on Washington, right-out on Hennepin)


Really, the only reason for the city to not choose Duval is if they can't finance it. I think there has been an appropriate level of skepticism here and elsewhere that they may not have the financing to pull this off. If they can't prove themselves capable to do this, then the city will choose someone else. There's not a shred of doubt that the other 3 could finance their proposals, as they're all well-established local players. If Duval has the financing and wherewithal to get this done, I believe it is their game to lose at this point.

[mattaudio]

I have to imagine that the podium of the Duval could be reworked so a streetcar could "cut the corner" similar to the United proposal. I'd like to see that, but who knows.

[MNdible]

While part of me really likes the idea of cutting the corner -- it's a big, bold move -- I'm not really sure that there are a lot of benefits to doing so.

For one thing, it's going to make the pedestrian realm at Hennepin and Washington a mess. It would also require the trains to have their own cycle at the lights, which could make it easier to drive the streetcar but will make the overall cycle at the intersection even longer.

[FISHMANPET]

I'm not sure why Duval would come out swinging with a proposal like this, then fall flat on his face and be unable to finance it. That'd be a pretty amateur move from someone who claims to have some chops, and would basically end his development career before it begins.

[talindsay]

I'm not crazy about Duval's street interaction - it gives the sense that you shouldn't go in unless you know you're supposed to go in. That's an issue I have with many tower designs, and it appears to be an issue with Mortenson's design as well. Retail won't thrive in these towers if you have to go away from the street, into an office tower, and find it. The best retail on Nicollet Ave opens directly onto the street with separate entrances for the retail; it's true that the Crystal Court works despite requiring that one go into the tower first, and so it's not like it's a non-starter; but up on north Nicollet Mall where nothing really opens directly onto the street currently (even the Library's Dunn Bros, despite having an external-facing door) I'd really like to see more direct Mall-fronting retail. Perhaps this can be something the City pushes for in negotiations with the winning bidder.

[sushisimo]

From the renderings, my eye seems to be reading a slight parallelogram footprint. I'm sure it's rectangle, and the rendering perspective is creating the funky angles toward the top of the tower especially.

[acs]

I was just browsing the Strib opinion section (Bad idea, I know) and I found this little reader op-ed. Its so depressing that it's almost funny. People like this are why we can't have nice things.

Yikes! An 80-story building on Nicollet Mall (“Lofty visions fill site plans,” Dec. 13)?! Alex Duval introduced this monstrosity to the Minneapolis Downtown Council.

Please, let’s make up our minds on the direction we want to take our premier downtown destination. A tree-lined mall seems much more approachable, friendly and environmentally sound. Parkways and plazas with low-rise office buildings and apartments with greenery instill a healthier, more livable attitude. Today, the Gateway district looks much too industrial, masculine and intimidating. It is certainly off-putting.

Bigger is not always better, and the trends are actually moving in a different, more cohesive direction. People want things easy, intimate and doable, yet efficient. A good way to keep the rest of us (suburban and rural) out of there is to keep increasing the size of bricks and mortar. I thought with the advent of the Internet that we would celebrate villages, connections and smaller communities. Our vision for downtown Minneapolis should include structures that inspire productivity, creativity and accessibility. Can’t we have it all?

Sharon E. Carlson, Andover

http://www.startribune.com/opinion/lett ... 56741.html

Seriously, this kind of small suburban bumpkin mindset is why I hate Minnesota.

[uptowncarag]

I was just browsing the Strib opinion section (Bad idea, I know) and I found this little reader op-ed. Its so depressing that it's almost funny. People like this are why we can't have nice things.

Yikes! An 80-story building on Nicollet Mall (“Lofty visions fill site plans,” Dec. 13)?! Alex Duval introduced this monstrosity to the Minneapolis Downtown Council.

Please, let’s make up our minds on the direction we want to take our premier downtown destination. A tree-lined mall seems much more approachable, friendly and environmentally sound. Parkways and plazas with low-rise office buildings and apartments with greenery instill a healthier, more livable attitude. Today, the Gateway district looks much too industrial, masculine and intimidating. It is certainly off-putting.

Bigger is not always better, and the trends are actually moving in a different, more cohesive direction. People want things easy, intimate and doable, yet efficient. A good way to keep the rest of us (suburban and rural) out of there is to keep increasing the size of bricks and mortar. I thought with the advent of the Internet that we would celebrate villages, connections and smaller communities. Our vision for downtown Minneapolis should include structures that inspire productivity, creativity and accessibility. Can’t we have it all?

Sharon E. Carlson, Andover

http://www.startribune.com/opinion/lett ... 56741.html

Seriously, this kind of small suburban bumpkin mindset is why I hate Minnesota.

LOL, Andover, why is she giving any imput at all. She would be the type that would say OMG you live in Minneapolis.

[Wedgeguy]

I live in MPLs because I like the urban environment and not the Parkway, strip malls landscape of Maple Grove and the other outer burbs.

[Wedgeguy]

I'm curious as to the placement of each option, office, hotel, and residential in the Duval Tower

1: Will it be Hotel on lower with housing above that and office on the top floors?
2: Will it be Hotel on the lower with the office in the middle and the residential on top?
3: Office on the lower and Hotel in the middle and residential on top.
I can see the Hotel as a solid base as being in the air and views is not that important to them. The higher you go the higher the cost in possible rents from the other two options are given up.
Does the hotel go up to the indent of the negative space and the residential above that. With the hotel and residential sharing that outdoor space and amenities on the floor where the negative space is?
We still don't have a SF count on office for the Duval yet so we?
I can see a set up similar to IDS where it is more smaller boutique tenants that want to pay the price for the best space, if the office space is not too huge. Under 300K sf I'm assuming.
How the Duval tower is laid out vertically will tell a lot about feasibility. How is the best way to get the best rents to make the building work? Any ideas or comment from the rest of you.

[Michael]

I live in MPLs because I like the urban environment and not the Parkway, strip malls landscape of Maple Grove and the other outer burbs.

Amen.

[a_tribe_called_chris]

I was just browsing the Strib opinion section (Bad idea, I know) and I found this little reader op-ed. Its so depressing that it's almost funny. People like this are why we can't have nice things.

Yikes! An 80-story building on Nicollet Mall (“Lofty visions fill site plans,” Dec. 13)?! Alex Duval introduced this monstrosity to the Minneapolis Downtown Council.

Please, let’s make up our minds on the direction we want to take our premier downtown destination. A tree-lined mall seems much more approachable, friendly and environmentally sound. Parkways and plazas with low-rise office buildings and apartments with greenery instill a healthier, more livable attitude. Today, the Gateway district looks much too industrial, masculine and intimidating. It is certainly off-putting.

Bigger is not always better, and the trends are actually moving in a different, more cohesive direction. People want things easy, intimate and doable, yet efficient. A good way to keep the rest of us (suburban and rural) out of there is to keep increasing the size of bricks and mortar. I thought with the advent of the Internet that we would celebrate villages, connections and smaller communities. Our vision for downtown Minneapolis should include structures that inspire productivity, creativity and accessibility. Can’t we have it all?

Sharon E. Carlson, Andover

http://www.startribune.com/opinion/lett ... 56741.html

Seriously, this kind of small suburban bumpkin mindset is why I hate Minnesota.

LOL, Andover, why is she giving any imput at all. She would be the type that would say OMG you live in Minneapolis.

Wow- what a horrible comment. Please stay in Andover lady. Barf

There is a vocal subset of population here in Minnesota that is backwards. This lady should go back to Iowa. Reading her letter makes me think of someone who comes downtown once a year.