Red Line (Cedar Avenue BRT)
Re: Red Line (Cedar Avenue BRT)
Since there are already express buses that run along the Red Line route (albeit during more limited hours), that's probably part of the reasoning too. Most people already take those if the timing works out.
-
- Wells Fargo Center
- Posts: 1064
- Joined: September 20th, 2017, 12:40 pm
- Location: North Loop
Re: Red Line (Cedar Avenue BRT)
Just get rid of the express buses, and beef up the service on the Red Line, and extend it to downtown.Since there are already express buses that run along the Red Line route (albeit during more limited hours), that's probably part of the reasoning too. Most people already take those if the timing works out.
-
- Stone Arch Bridge
- Posts: 7682
- Joined: June 19th, 2012, 2:04 pm
- Location: NORI: NOrth of RIchfield
Re: Red Line (Cedar Avenue BRT)
I think we should look strongly at how we can curtail express service in this corridor and supplant with Red Line extension to downtown. There are already express buses that stop at multiple stations along the corridor, especially during shoulder hours of rush hour such as the 477V or 477R. If the Red Line ran through Downtown, it could replace many of these express buses. I think there would still need to be express buses during peak hours.
Re: Red Line (Cedar Avenue BRT)
I wonder if maybe it's a dumb turf war between MVTA and Metro Transit. If MT's really that concerned about making sure the Red Line riders use the Blue Line to get downtown, it's possible that MVTA wants express buses from the South Metro to be exclusively MVTA service and not Metro.
Re: Red Line (Cedar Avenue BRT)
One issue with replacing the express buses with the Red Line would be the extra time added to trips by servicing the MOA; getting in and out of there would slow things down a fair amount.
Also, some of the express routes that run along Cedar/77 don't just run through that corridor -- they stop elsewhere too, such as the Blackhawk P&R in Eagan, the Minnesota Zoo, etc. It would require a substantial rework of the connecting routes and probably expansion of the existing Red Line station parking as well if the express buses replaced by the Red Line no longer serviced those locations (when I took it, a lot of riders on the 472 used the Blackhawk P&R, for example).
Also, some of the express routes that run along Cedar/77 don't just run through that corridor -- they stop elsewhere too, such as the Blackhawk P&R in Eagan, the Minnesota Zoo, etc. It would require a substantial rework of the connecting routes and probably expansion of the existing Red Line station parking as well if the express buses replaced by the Red Line no longer serviced those locations (when I took it, a lot of riders on the 472 used the Blackhawk P&R, for example).
-
- Wells Fargo Center
- Posts: 1732
- Joined: May 31st, 2012, 8:02 pm
- Location: Chicago (ex-Minneapolitan)
Re: Red Line (Cedar Avenue BRT)
An extension north to Minneapolis would reduce the trip time by approximately 15-20 minutes, as well as eliminate the transfer penalty.
Maybe it would be worthwhile to run every other trip north as a test to see how well it would perform. Would be nice during 35w construction as well
Maybe it would be worthwhile to run every other trip north as a test to see how well it would perform. Would be nice during 35w construction as well
-
- Wells Fargo Center
- Posts: 1717
- Joined: March 30th, 2016, 1:26 pm
Re: Red Line (Cedar Avenue BRT)
By that logic why are we building the light rail extensions when there are already express buses?Since there are already express buses that run along the Red Line route (albeit during more limited hours), that's probably part of the reasoning too. Most people already take those if the timing works out.
I'm not saying eliminate all express service on this corridor and replace it with the Red Line. If the Red Line was extended north I don't see major impacts happening to the express service. At most a few trips on the 477 get cut and the 475 is reduced to a few trips during peak time in peak direction.
Re: Red Line (Cedar Avenue BRT)
There's no way a Red Line bus that has to make all of its existing stops plus a stop at MOA on its route is going to be as fast as the existing express buses. That's what it would be up against. Sure, a Red Line bus that goes downtown is going to be faster than Red Line + Blue Line, and it would be a good substitute for that. But expecting riders who want an express bus to be content with a slower Red Line bus to downtown is unrealistic.
-
- Wells Fargo Center
- Posts: 1717
- Joined: March 30th, 2016, 1:26 pm
Re: Red Line (Cedar Avenue BRT)
I don't know if you're talking to me, but yes I know that. Like I said previously, there would be little, if any, cuts to express service with a Red Line extension to downtown.There's no way a Red Line bus that has to make all of its existing stops plus a stop at MOA on its route is going to be as fast as the existing express buses. That's what it would be up against. Sure, a Red Line bus that goes downtown is going to be faster than Red Line + Blue Line, and it would be a good substitute for that. But expecting riders who want an express bus to be content with a slower Red Line bus to downtown is unrealistic.
Some people who use express buses in the east metro were ticked because they thought the Gold Line would replace those buses and they would have to deal with slower station-to-station service. That's not the intent of these BRT and LRT routes. Its to provide all day service in both directions giving people who use the express buses another option of travel (if they have to leave work early then chances are likely the express bus isn't running), allowing people who travel off-peak a convenient option, and allowing people who travel suburb-to-suburb a convenient option while being more economical than an express bus running all day in both directions.
-
- Wells Fargo Center
- Posts: 1626
- Joined: June 4th, 2012, 12:03 pm
Re: Red Line (Cedar Avenue BRT)
I'm still amazed that this is even being debated... if the infrastructure is being built out to support the Red Line BRT to through-route MOA on to downtown, it should be. It gives people more options, which is always good. If this adds riders from East Bloomington to the ride pool, who now perhaps don't want to spend 1/2 hour on the Blue Line, but could support taking the Red Line from MOA to downtown, via 35W (the same way they'd drive), I'm all for it. I don't think any current express routes from AV/Lakeville/Eagan/Burnsville need to be eliminated. It shouldn't be about this vs that, but really a this & that option.
Re: Red Line (Cedar Avenue BRT)
Just to clarify, I'm all for expanding the Red Line to downtown Minneapolis, because that will make a lot more useful, particularly for riders traveling outside of rush hours. My intent was to show why others may not consider it necessary, but I think that doing so is a good idea as long as it's not considered a substitute for the express routes.
-
- Wells Fargo Center
- Posts: 1626
- Joined: June 4th, 2012, 12:03 pm
Re: Red Line (Cedar Avenue BRT)
I never doubted that - I meant I can't believe Metro Transit/Met Council is still debating this...Just to clarify, I'm all for expanding the Red Line to downtown Minneapolis, because that will make a lot more useful, particularly for riders traveling outside of rush hours. My intent was to show why others may not consider it necessary, but I think that doing so is a good idea as long as it's not considered a substitute for the express routes.
- sdho
- US Bank Plaza
- Posts: 738
- Joined: August 17th, 2013, 12:54 pm
- Location: The Urban Hometown®
- Contact:
Re: Red Line (Cedar Avenue BRT)
Given what a dud the Red Line has been so far, I guess I don't see an extension as making a dramatic improvement -- and I wouldn't support it if it meant "splitting" Orange Line frequency. But if it was just layered on top, it would be a nice addition. I agree time from MOA to downtown would be better on 35W most of the day. Having an all-day express bus from 66th and Cedar would also be really nice for the development area there. And obviously 46th St and Lake St Station would get even better frequency than they're already slated to.
-
- Wells Fargo Center
- Posts: 1717
- Joined: March 30th, 2016, 1:26 pm
Re: Red Line (Cedar Avenue BRT)
Red Line is shut down from 8 PM to 8 AM.
And the anti-LRT crowd will be silent.
And the anti-LRT crowd will be silent.
-
- Stone Arch Bridge
- Posts: 7682
- Joined: June 19th, 2012, 2:04 pm
- Location: NORI: NOrth of RIchfield
Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project
If we're going to discuss hypothetical exurban extensions to BRT lines, I'd rather see the Red Line extended to Downtowns Lakeville and Farmington. Let's connect old urbanized neighborhoods before we try to connect sprawlscapes. https://goo.gl/maps/2V8CTWNW5F22
-
- Wells Fargo Center
- Posts: 1717
- Joined: March 30th, 2016, 1:26 pm
Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project
How exactly are you going to route the Red Line to both of those downtowns (without branching, rapid transit routes like the Red and Orange need one simple route if we ever want regular people to be comfortable using them)? There's also the fact that between Apple Valley and Downtown Lakeville and Farmington its transit-hostile suburban subdivisions and farm fields (mostly the latter).If we're going to discuss hypothetical exurban extensions to BRT lines, I'd rather see the Red Line extended to Downtowns Lakeville and Farmington. Let's connect old urbanized neighborhoods before we try to connect sprawlscapes. https://goo.gl/maps/2V8CTWNW5F22
-
- Stone Arch Bridge
- Posts: 7682
- Joined: June 19th, 2012, 2:04 pm
- Location: NORI: NOrth of RIchfield
Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project
See the attached link.
-
- Wells Fargo Center
- Posts: 1717
- Joined: March 30th, 2016, 1:26 pm
Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project
Now what are the chances that actually happens over the official plan of ending it at an empty park & ride lot nowhere near either downtown? https://www.google.se/maps/@44.6396209, ... a=!3m1!1e3
-
- Landmark Center
- Posts: 257
- Joined: February 11th, 2018, 11:51 am
Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project
nothing more exciting than a proposed BRT line terminating next to a Kwip Trip. Rapid bus routes and milk in a bag. God bless Murica!
-
- Stone Arch Bridge
- Posts: 7682
- Joined: June 19th, 2012, 2:04 pm
- Location: NORI: NOrth of RIchfield
Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project
That Kwik Trip is in a walkable downtown that serves as the urban center for thousands of people. Should we not worry about transit on Washington because it might pass Bobby and Steves? Or can you believe we built one of the metro's major transit hubs within eyesight of the North Loop Holiday?
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 9 guests