Vikings Stadium Miscellaneous Discussion

[Didier]

Speaking of closing off public streets on gamedays:

http://journalmpls.wordpress.com/2012/1 ... state-law/

I like that Rybak and Minneapolis in general are being pretty progressive about finding new ways to do the urban gameday. Hopefully the trend of relaxing liquor laws continues to help create more opportunities like this.

[Le Sueur]

I did send this email to Mark Williams via HKS. In addition to my ideas, I was considering some of the comments posted on MSP...

Thanks for sharing. Enjoyed the comments, almost as much as PhilmerPhil's

[LRV Op Dude]

'Railgating' Hurts Game Day Sales at Some Mpls. Businesses

Some downtown businesses say their game day sales are down anywhere between 20 and 50 percent. And, they are not pleased that Mayor Rybak took a very visible position supporting their competitors on Vikings home Sundays.

[Lancestar2]

'Railgating' Hurts Game Day Sales at Some Mpls. Businesses

Some downtown businesses say their game day sales are down anywhere between 20 and 50 percent. And, they are not pleased that Mayor Rybak took a very visible position supporting their competitors on Vikings home Sundays.

since when was a free market a bad thing?

I can understand they are not happy to loose business and extra profits but as a consumer I would prefer having more choices than fewer. Also I would stand with the mayor in saying they are a good thing they force existing business to work even harder to fight for sales instead of just expecting everyone to visit them only because they are one of the few places to eat.

I really don't think it's fair for the businesses like Pizza La Vista are complaining about the mayor's support for food trucks. Though if they are so concerned I think they should invest in a food truck themselves! I mean when the Vikings move to the Gopher stadium they should have a food truck to collect sales. It's the wave of the future!

[John21]

Pizza La Vista closed like a month after they opened for "renovation". I'm not sure I'd build a 'business is down' story around them.

Also, actual attendance at games is down. I guess channel 5 forgot to check on that.

[Le Sueur]

I guess channel 5 forgot to check on that.

KSTP is great at 'the sky is falling' pieces. As with many news stories, facts/research is optional.

[Jfuss]

A summary from the MSFA Environmental Impacting Meeting

http://www.msfa.com/content/ENVIRONMENT ... y%20V2.pdf

The discussions were about accessibility, stadium construction, water management, pedestrian connections, parking, and restoring the urban fabric of downtown (street grid).

[mplsjaromir]

The plot thickens.

Strib

[Aville_37]

Way to go Dayton!

[MNdible]

I agree that the deal to play in London is utterly tone-deaf, bad bad PR. An all around stupid, greedy, ungrateful move by the Vikings.

But the seat licences? That's a no-brainer. Every article I read about the stadium assumed that the Vikings were going to do that for part of their share, but somehow Dayton didn't see it coming?

[min-chi-cbus]

I agree that the deal to play in London is utterly tone-deaf, bad bad PR. An all around stupid, greedy, ungrateful move by the Vikings.

But the seat licences? That's a no-brainer. Every article I read about the stadium assumed that the Vikings were going to do that for part of their share, but somehow Dayton didn't see it coming?

Honestly, I've read many a Vikings stadium article and can't remember ONE TIME where a seat license proposal was widely issued and accepted.....but maybe I missed it or don't remember it. I don't think the public would have accepted the stadium (even moreso, not that they had a vote per se anyways) if only the rich were able to use it -- no f'ing way! It actually kind of pisses me off that they're proposing this, since a great stadium environment has ALWAYS included making it affordable to the middle class. They're the best and most loyal fans!

[MNdible]

Apparently the Vikings just invented the idea of personal seat licenses. Oh, wait. Looks like just about every NFL stadium built in the last decade uses them. Huh.

The NFL GAME DAY EXPERIENCE isn't really for the middle class -- but you knew that already, didn't you?

[Didier]

It was always assumed that personal seat licenses would come into play, since that is generally how these stadium deals are funded. Of course it was never officially written down, but it should come as no surprise that the team is floating this idea.

I applaud Dayton for making note of this, though. The numbers floating around suggest that certain seats might fetch a PSL of as much as $20,000. So to have a pair of seats you'd need to fork down $40,000 plus the price of season tickets. From my understanding, that 20K figure is probably high because it is based on prices for PSLs at the new Giants-Jets stadium in New York, but even smaller numbers would dramatically affect a lot of the blue collar fans who are the foundation of this team's fanbase.

As an aside, I feel like the NFL is either misguided by greed or just simply misguided in its approach to the in-stadium experience. Much has been made recently about how the at-home experience is making the in-stadium experience less appealing, so to combat this many NFL teams are going overboard to improve the connectivity in stadiums so fans can get instant updates and analysis on their iPads, etc. Since so many people go to football games and want to follow game-tracker on their smart phone.

The NFL would be wise, in my opinion, to cater as much to the die-hard fans as to the fans who want to bring a tablet to games. Designate sections of the stadium to supporters groups with affordable tickets, an expectation of standing throughout the game and give some credibility to groups like Minnesota Momentum, who organized the fan support for the stadium drive. This is a concept that works both in college football and in soccer around the world (including MLS) — allowing the most passionate fans to create the game atmosphere so the rich folks in other sections have a good time with their iPads. It would — or will — be a shame when our NFL stadium is gentrified like so many others already are.

[Rich]

I'm a fan of Dayton, but I'm not sure he's on solid footing here. Kevin Seifert has an interesting take:

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/post/_ ... roved-psls

[Didier]

Come on. Protests against inevitability are a waste of time.

This quote, from the Seifert blog, is my problem with a lot of the attitude toward dealing with the NFL. The team is here for the next 30 years, so even if preventing PSL's is impossible, why not take advantage of the bully pulpit to highlight the owners' exploitation of fans? The NFL is pretty powerful, but it's not invincible, so bad PR could certainly influence fan decisions, and thus force the team to react.

[min-chi-cbus]

Apparently the Vikings just invented the idea of personal seat licenses. Oh, wait. Looks like just about every NFL stadium built in the last decade uses them. Huh.

The NFL GAME DAY EXPERIENCE isn't really for the middle class -- but you knew that already, didn't you?

You're a snarky little shit, aren't you?

Expanding on Didier' idea, if seat licenses have to happen, maybe they could hold a "lottery" each week for home games where the poor old middle class submits requests for seats and the lucky winners are drawn randomly. And I think this class of fans should have just as good of access to good views as the high-payers/no risk takers, so half the stadium could be for one and the other half for the other. In the spirit of MNdible's ideology, It's not like we're inventing segregation here!

[MNdible]

You're a snarky little shit, aren't you?

Yeah, sometimes. Sorry -- that was really directed more at Dayton than at you.

I too like Dayton, but find it hard to believe that he was SHOCKED, SHOCKED to find PSLs being sold.

[Nick]

I was also under the impression that PSLs were supposed to have been a given, though I don't know if it was fleshed out to what extent they were going to require them. The $20,000 figure for the two 50 yard line seats, plus the price of tickets, seems outrageous in this market. There's a lot of money in this town, but $10,000 per seat is crazy...right? That said, if someone wants to throw $20,000 at the stadium to feel like they're contributing Lambeau Field-style, go nuts, but I wish there was a fair way for them to do that without screwing over forty year ticket holder Lars Svensen from Walker who can't pony up the dough.

There have been a lot of good articles written about the atmosphere at the new Yankee Stadium...not something we want to replicate here.

[mullen]

this is disingenuous on the part of the governor. perhaps a bit of hubris after the recent election. this was all spelled out and vetted in the stadium bill. the team is basically gauging fan's thoughts. welcome to the reality of the NFL. there aren't set in stone dollar amounts. perhaps he should have calmed down before sending off that letter. if anthing is rescinded he will a one term governor no doubt. to threat to do that after all the struggle and drama of the last few years of this saga is shortsighted for a person occupying that office.

for comparison psl's are part of pittsburgh's stadium agreement. we're a larger and wealthier metro.

please make this state's obession with stadium talk go away for godsakes.

[min-chi-cbus]

I honestly don't care if they're in Pittsburgh or Addis Abba, Ethiopia, the very premise of them is wrong, wrong, wrong! The owners need to use their heads every once in a while and come up with something different that works for everyone. I have faith that it CAN be done!