urbanMSP

It always amazes me at some of the comments people post about the projects proposed or happening around the metro.
For those questioning the price tag of the 12 block redo, there have been stories over the years about how maintaining the current state will cost more in the long run. The other point people keep mentioning is holding the building owners accountable to opening up their space to the mall. I full heartily agree with this statement, but no one seems to acknowledge that that other $25 million will be coming from them. And this notion that our "leaders" don't think big enough by promoting the option of a $200+ million dollar tunnel beneath Nicollet Mall, when we can't seem to repair our pothole riddled streets is almost laughable. It's not reality. Our "leaders" know reality - and promoting a remake of the backbone of Minneapolis can't cost hundreds of million dollars. The fact that the $50 million price tag should reap $100+ million in return is huge. Not sure if a $250 million would result in a two fold return.

It's not a 2 for 1 return for the public. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdBOiF6AH-o

It's not a 2 for 1 return for the public. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdBOiF6AH-o

Great link Matt, thanks. I do wish the real ROI was presented more often.

the bonding dollars have been approved now. so this is going to happen.

I think it's important to quote this line from the F&C story, just because people here tend to toss out the "just dig a tunnel!" option with great regularity.

James Corner, the firm’s founding partner, said the project is challenging from a technical standpoint because there’s a lot of utilities below grade.

Except that no one should be surprised that there are tons of utilities under Nicollet Mall. What matters more than the amount of utilities is where they are and how well they're organized. If I were to guess based on the access panels, I'd bet that most of them are placed roughly 5-20' from each building face mostly under the sidewalk area, which would allow them to be accessed without detouring buses, or if they need to be repaired, without cutting through the thick concrete paving the bus runningway.

This is a problem for James Cornfield, who probably wants to put pomo ovular gluteus maximus relaxation units and sugar tube roasting kiosks right where centerpoint likes to access their gas lines. But it may be less of a problem for a bus tunnel, which could be designed in the space where the utilities aren't. The stations would likely affect the utilities, but that could be as few as one block and I don't think anyone is suggesting more than three.

What I am suggesting is that before making a $50m investment in Nicollet Mall pavers, the city should consider that a bus tunnel under Nicollet is necessary if the city ever wants to make transit a major component to its transportation system, and they should spend the change needed to figure out how much it would cost to build and if now is the right time.

And this notion that our "leaders" don't think big enough by promoting the option of a $200+ million dollar tunnel beneath Nicollet Mall, when we can't seem to repair our pothole riddled streets is almost laughable.

This is inane. We can and are repairing our pothole riddled streets, and we can and do spend $200m on segments of transportation infrastructure that are of region-wide importance. By the way, sorry if you don't like potholes but you better get used to them as they are a permanent fixture of a paved roadway network.

RE: Utilities.
Not only are there the normal utilities that woofner mentions, but Xcel also has 3 buried 115kV transmission lines that come out of 5th Street Substation from the Nicollet Mall side. I'm not 100% sure of the routes they take, but they're under the mall for at least a block. I'm not saying they would or should prevent a tunnel, just that moving them would be an extra $50 million or so.

please PLEASE puuuuhlease stop calling him James Cornerfield. it's James Corner (big space) Field Operations. that's like saying Barack Obamapresident of the United states.

I think (?) we're intentionally saying Cornfield.

I think (?) we're intentionally saying Cornfield.

lame.

Well I didn't but judging from who has, it was a joke.

I think (?) we're intentionally saying Cornfield.

lame.

I laughed.

James Cornfield, brother of economist Myron Cornfield and South Mpls commercial landlord Steve Cornfield.

sounds like reporting and promoting the twin cities lead development taking site that can't post rumors should do.

tracking

sounds like reporting and promoting the twin cities lead development taking site that can't post rumors should do.

I'm not sure what you said, but I have to admire how you said it.

^LOL

#rumors

I'm debating if this should be in the Nicollet Mall or Downtown Retail thread... Hear me out and move if you think it should be somewhere else.

Today as I went out from my office in LaSalle Plaza to eat at a food truck along Marquette, I saw that it was also Farmer's Market day on Nicollet Mall. I'm new to having my office downtown. I had always heard about how busy it was, but never seen it. Today both Marq and Nic sidewalks were overflowing due to the gorgeous weather.

The thought came to my mind about how great it could be if they could close Nicollet Mall to buses/taxis from 10-2 on these days and move the food trucks over. Make it a true pedestrian mall and the GO TO spot downtown and make it very enjoyable for everyone. I saw many people frustrated by the crowds.

Your thoughts???

Yes!

Downtown needs more people space and less car space. The four lane one way network is outdated for a 21st century and needs to go.

I'm debating if this should be in the Nicollet Mall or Downtown Retail thread... Hear me out and move if you think it should be somewhere else.

Today as I went out from my office in LaSalle Plaza to eat at a food truck along Marquette, I saw that it was also Farmer's Market day on Nicollet Mall. I'm new to having my office downtown. I had always heard about how busy it was, but never seen it. Today both Marq and Nic sidewalks were overflowing due to the gorgeous weather.

The thought came to my mind about how great it could be if they could close Nicollet Mall to buses/taxis from 10-2 on these days and move the food trucks over. Make it a true pedestrian mall and the GO TO spot downtown and make it very enjoyable for everyone. I saw many people frustrated by the crowds.

Your thoughts???

Personally I like the idea of having people on other streets downtown like Marquette. Perhaps having more people on the street and the recent street/sidewalk redo will encourage more street level businesses to open along Marquette too. Be nice if there was a place/benches/tables for people to take their food from the food trucks and enjoy outside.