Stadium Parking Ramp Development Site - 25 stories / 294'
Re: Stadium Parking Ramp Air Rights Development
Found another one...
I created the towers, and the 6 floor apartment building in the foreground.
those jerks.
I created the towers, and the 6 floor apartment building in the foreground.
those jerks.
Re: Stadium Parking Ramp Air Rights Development
Despite your hard work, time and effort, you could take pride in the fact that they like it enough to use it. If that helps at all.
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- US Bank Plaza
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Re: Stadium Parking Ramp Air Rights Development
I'm with David, sue for copyright infringement. And contact City Pages.
Re: Stadium Parking Ramp Air Rights Development
I'd read the fine print in Google warehouse or whatever it is... they might strip you of your rights when you publicize it...
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- IDS Center
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Re: Stadium Parking Ramp Air Rights Development
They're making money off his work. At the very least they're not paying the business cost to develop the models. That's damages by unjust enrichment. They should have purchased the renderings or made new ones.You can try the lawsuit thing, but I'm not sure what you're hoping to get out of it. An injunction? Moot. Damages? Can you show unjust enrichment or economic damage to you?Sue for copyright infringement.Maybe I'm just thinking highly of myself... but I think the vikings used my model.
Seriously.
Lawsuits are expensive, yes, but perhaps a lawyer can reach a settlement without going to trial. There've got to be some hungry new attorneys out there. As people have said, the Wilf's ain't exactly popular right now. The bad PR alone might push them to settle quietly.
It's exactly what Wilf would do if the situations were reversed.
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- IDS Center
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Re: Stadium Parking Ramp Air Rights Development
That's what I was going to say, but M B P did claim that he pulled it down from public viewing.. I feel like whatever you post in there can be used since it's technically a design program. And what do you mean they're making money off of his work? The person who made the rendering is making money but aren't the Wilfs' losing money because they had to pay the person to create a render?
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- IDS Center
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Re: Stadium Parking Ramp Air Rights Development
I'm not a lawyer and yes, the target might be the company that developed the rendering. But ultimately they were contracted by the Vikings. A lawyer would have to figure it out.That's what I was going to say, but M B P did claim that he pulled it down from public viewing.. I feel like whatever you post in there can be used since it's technically a design program. And what do you mean they're making money off of his work? The person who made the rendering is making money but aren't the Wilfs' losing money because they had to pay the person to create a render?
Depending on the target, they're making money by being paid for the rendering work or they're making money by not paying (as much) for the rendering.
Re: Stadium Parking Ramp Air Rights Development
I suspect the critical question will come down to whether the copyrighted material has terms of use attached that allowed for some use of the files. I think we can leave it in the lawyers' hands at this point if the affected party so desires. Those saying "sue him" without knowing all the facts may want to cool their jets. Litigation is messy stuff and really is a last resort in 99% of cases.
Re: Stadium Parking Ramp Air Rights Development
By uploading his models to the 3D Warehouse, m_b_p agreed to the site's EULA, which permits:
https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/tos.htmlDistributing Models, Creations, and Combined Works to third parties for your business purposes (including for commercial purposes);
From Sketchup's FAQ:I work for a construction company in the computer graphics & visualization department. Can I use models from 3D Warehouse to populate construction scenes?
Answer: Yes. You can use models from 3D Warehouse to populate construction scenes.
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- US Bank Plaza
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Re: Stadium Parking Ramp Air Rights Development
This is the germane point: what were the terms of the models submitted to the "warehouse?"I suspect the critical question will come down to whether the copyrighted material has terms of use attached that allowed for some use of the files. I think we can leave it in the lawyers' hands at this point if the affected party so desires. Those saying "sue him" without knowing all the facts may want to cool their jets. Litigation is messy stuff and really is a last resort in 99% of cases.
I can say that MAYBE 1% of architects are technologically adept enough to circumvent the restricted downloading of files somehow.
I would love for people to get paid for their models but if they are up on the warehouse for free, it is assumed on the other end that they are available for download and use.
I'm not a big Sketchup guy but if people use their free time to create models and post them without restriction to the warehouse then...thank you?
Architecture firms are no different than any other business: if something is available for free then who wouldn't grab it?
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- IDS Center
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Re: Stadium Parking Ramp Air Rights Development
More broadly, 99.9% (slight exaggeration) of internet users assume if something is found on the internet it can be reused for free.... if they are up on the warehouse for free, it is assumed on the other end that they are available for download and use.
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- IDS Center
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Re: Stadium Parking Ramp Air Rights Development
And both assumptions are very, very dangerous unless use terms explicitly allow it.
Free Software is usually free as in beer and is readily available on the 'net but it still has copyright protection. In fact the GNU General Public License relies on it and companies have been successfully sued for not following the licensing terms.
Free Software is usually free as in beer and is readily available on the 'net but it still has copyright protection. In fact the GNU General Public License relies on it and companies have been successfully sued for not following the licensing terms.
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- IDS Center
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Re: Stadium Parking Ramp Air Rights Development
Terms explicitly allow it
I work for a construction company in the computer graphics & visualization department. Can I use models from 3D Warehouse to populate construction scenes?
Answer: Yes. You can use models from 3D Warehouse to populate construction scenes.
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- US Bank Plaza
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Re: Stadium Parking Ramp Air Rights Development
True. But in many cases of "internet stuff" there are measures in place to protect authors. For images, watermarks tend to be a strong deterrent for those looking for resources. For video you've got the original item in an embed link, etc. For text, you've got...google which exposes a lot of plagiarism (wife is a teacher).More broadly, 99.9% (slight exaggeration) of internet users assume if something is found on the internet it can be reused for free.... if they are up on the warehouse for free, it is assumed on the other end that they are available for download and use.
For models it's an actual file with content that is either downloadable or it isn't. If it IS downloadable (through conventional means) then it is reasonable to assume that the author INTENDED it to be made available.
Example: we look for high-res images all of the time and there are tons on Flickr. However, users can choose to not make an image downloadable (through a creative commons license I believe) which means that you either have to accept that and move on or take a screenshot, accept the image quality downgrade and be a jerk.
This is getting WAY off-topic but I think authors should be compensated for their work; the question is, how do you do that in a way that is fair to the author, reasonable for the consumer and easy to achieve (transaction wise)?
Re: Stadium Parking Ramp Air Rights Development
I briefly chatted with a lawyer. He looked over 3d warehouse's terms of use.
Apparently anyone is allowed to use any of models in any of their work so long as they've made significant changes to the overall composition. I guess they added buildings to my 3... so they did make changes.
However, only a "reasonable amount" of copies are allowed to be made. Is putting my model in the STrib, Strib.com, TV news across the state, and TV news' websites reasonable?
The lawyer said he'd take on the case... though it could be tricky. I don't know if I'm going to do anything.
I make my models public so that other people, like me, laymen, can get a glimpse into details that aren't made clear through public announcements. Not so that a billion dollar company can save a few bucks by not paying someone for their work.
Let's just move on.
Apparently anyone is allowed to use any of models in any of their work so long as they've made significant changes to the overall composition. I guess they added buildings to my 3... so they did make changes.
However, only a "reasonable amount" of copies are allowed to be made. Is putting my model in the STrib, Strib.com, TV news across the state, and TV news' websites reasonable?
The lawyer said he'd take on the case... though it could be tricky. I don't know if I'm going to do anything.
I make my models public so that other people, like me, laymen, can get a glimpse into details that aren't made clear through public announcements. Not so that a billion dollar company can save a few bucks by not paying someone for their work.
Let's just move on.
Re: Stadium Parking Ramp Air Rights Development
[quote="m b p"]Found another one...
Never noticed before how much this looks like the U of M Alumni Center from this angle...
Never noticed before how much this looks like the U of M Alumni Center from this angle...
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- US Bank Plaza
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Re: Stadium Parking Ramp Air Rights Development
Like I said, I'm on the side of authors (like yourselves).I briefly chatted with a lawyer. He looked over 3d warehouse's terms of use.
Apparently anyone is allowed to use any of models in any of their work so long as they've made significant changes to the overall composition. I guess they added buildings to my 3... so they did make changes.
However, only a "reasonable amount" of copies are allowed to be made. Is putting my model in the STrib, Strib.com, TV news across the state, and TV news' websites reasonable?
The lawyer said he'd take on the case... though it could be tricky. I don't know if I'm going to do anything.
I make my models public so that other people, like me, laymen, can get a glimpse into details that aren't made clear through public announcements. Not so that a billion dollar company can save a few bucks by not paying someone for their work.
Let's just move on.
I think the ONLY solution to this would be if Google changed the way their system worked wherein you would build and submit a model with coordinates and it would go into Google Earth or a "future projects" layer of some kind that could be turned on and off in Google Earth. It is already possible in Sketchup an Revit to model your building and "place" it into Google Earth to visualize it. The graphics have some limitations, don't look nearly as good and you are at the mercy of the cameras in Google Earth (i.e. you have MUCH less control).
As long as there is a "warehouse" that allows the downloading of models with an EULA with ambiguous terms like "reasonable" use, I don't see any way that this changes.
An order for an architecture firm to create an image of this kind WITHOUT people like yourselves would be to go to EACH party and get their models individually for each building that is set to appear in the image or, model it themselves. The problem in scenario one is that each party is going to want a hefty chunk of money but not only that, it is their "creative content" in the sense that unless they spend a lot of time stripping things out, they could potentially be giving away company secrets. Sketchup models are just a bunch of dumb faces but in the case of a Revit model, there is TONS of data (time, content, corporate development) that goes into a model making that "stripping" process unwieldy, expensive and difficult. Also, it isn't just a question of money, in many cases, there is a time element to this where everyone wants things NOW. To create a model of all of these future projects "in house", just isn't feasible with the desired timeframes.
Now, multiply these issues across all of the various buildings set to appear in an image and I'm sure you can see the issue compounding quickly.
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- Wells Fargo Center
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Re: Stadium Parking Ramp Air Rights Development
Yeah, glad the City went with Ryan for this location.
I think this could be a cool addition elsewhere downtown though. (but with more glass)
Re: Stadium Parking Ramp Air Rights Development
^^^ It's too bad Mortenson couldn't develop a hotel with Ryan and Magellan's residential project above. Probably way too complicated in many ways. We may see something similar to this proposal at Hennepin and 4th.
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