DTE: Wells Fargo, Radisson Red, Edition Apts & Millwright Building

[RailBaronYarr]

While I agree Rybak most likely didn't intend harm by invoking the term 'yard,' I also agree that he (and others) should be aware of the power of words. Home vs House, etc. To support the notion redisciple is talking about, go read the article title and comments section for the Star Tribune post from today here: http://www.startribune.com/local/210192791.html

Edit: the article was titled "Street Closure in Vikings Stadium Plan" they have since changed it

The fact that it is being framed as a Vikings stadium deal and people confuse/relate the 2 is clear evidence of how the language used to describe this park affects people's understanding of its use.

[Avian]

I don't expect a lot of deep thinking on this board, but I do expect a politician to be aware of the power of words and the ways they can be associated.

Actually, there is a lot of deep thinking going on and a lot of knowledgeable people here. I worked for William Morrish (former Dean of the School of Constructed Environments at Parsons The New School for Design in NYC) and his wife the late Catherine Brown at the U's Design Center for the American Urban Landscape in the early '90's. I was also Morrish's TA in urban design and he was one of my three Mentors for my M.Arch degree at the U, so I do know a bit about urban planning. I'm not bragging by any means (!!!), I'm just pointing out that there are several architects, planners and developers on these boards.

And they know what you mean by "yard" and they also know what the colloquial "yard" refers to.

I will join the chorus of objectors to the closing of Park and Portland Avenues. That's an urban nightmare for that part of town. I do support closing Park Av on Viking game days, providing allowance for emergency vehicles only.

Park and Portland - as they cross through the proposed park - could be paved in a different way along with distinctive street furniture and plantings. Eliminating the parking bays on this one block stretch would also be a good idea, perhaps replacing them with an allée. This would provide a visual connection through the length of the multi-block park, signal to drivers that they are entering a zone where they need to pay more attention, and offer a better pedestrian experience when the street is closed.

[m b p]

I agree. Ryback understands the concept of a yard. Redisciple does not. (I am saying that in the kindest way Red )

Even if he accidentally called it a lake, I don't see the point in pointing that out. But... he didn't call a park a lake. He called it a yard... which makes total sense.

Did you know Washington DC has yard? The D.C. Naval Yard doesn't even focus on vegetation... or houses... yet it's still a "yard."

Red... It seems like you are nitpicking a fight with your political enemies, because they used a word that you don't commonly use in the same setting. Even though the usage of that word is totally acceptable... and not wrong in any way.

[MNdible]

I don't expect a lot of deep thinking on this board...

Well, that's a jerkish thing to say.

[mnmike]

Shut up and let us get drunk on some featureless grassy space

You guys should maybe learn something about urban development before commenting on an urban development forum. Front yards have long been emblematic of suburban development. Please see Kenneth Jackson, Ebenezer Howard, Frederic Law Olmstead, Frank Lloyd Wright, etc. The fact that the mayor uses this figure of speech suggest that he is just as ignorant of the history of American cities as you three are, or that he doesn't care. Both are problematic.

First of all,what is this quote in your post? Making up quotes is pretty lame. Where did that come from?

Second of all...RUDE, and arrogant. As for assuming others don't know about urban development at all? Incredibly rude, arrogant, and condescending. At the U of M, my major was Urban studies, this topic has been a huge area of interest in my life for the past 15 years...Am I an expert? No, but pretty sure I know more than the average Joe about it. As you can see from Avian's post, many of the forumers on here you are insulting and claiming to know more than have much experience with the topic! This is just getting immature and stupid, and I apologize for participating, but I can't believe the level of arrogance. Yes, this is just a dorky internet message board, but read your posts, I am pretty sure you owe some apologies. Hopefully this will get back on topic...I will just sit this one out from now on.

[FISHMANPET]

I don't think there was any particular meaning meant by the word yard, but I have to agree that it does carry certain weight.

I think to describe an urban park as a yard is to in someway say that urban living is not good enough, that you can't really live without a front yard, but you can settle for this park and almost be a real person.

Green space is important, and I think it's nice to have access to it in an urban environment.

But the vast majority of this city is SFHs, and nothing's going to change that. So intentional or not, people are going to have a front yard point of view. Even most apartment buildings in this city have a front yard of some sort.

[seanrichardryan]

The 'yard' is too large to be effective as a busy urban space, especially since the adjacent uses are horrific. If they really want an effective park space, knock it down to one block and have new development surrounding it on all sides. As currently proposed, it will offer a lovely vista of the backside of Hennepin County Jail and two (3?) parking ramps and an empty plaza in front of Mount Zygi. That is not a recipe for vitality.

[MNdible]

I somewhat agree, but I think there's value in having the Armory open up to the public space. I could see them developing a narrow building on the 5th Avenue face of that block that would screen the jail from the park.

[woofner]

And they know what you mean by "yard" and they also know what the colloquial "yard" refers to.

Please explain the difference.

Did you know Washington DC has yard? The D.C. Naval Yard doesn't even focus on vegetation... or houses... yet it's still a "yard."

Last I checked there will be few or no dry docks in Ryan's The Yard. This is why it is not unreasonable to interpret it as the front yard to the Vikings' McMansion.

Well, that's a jerkish thing to say.

I tried to be upfront about the fact that I take suburban encroachment on Downtown Minneapolis personally and that I'm insulted by the notion of taking 6 blocks of at least urbanizable space and devoting them to a suburban use. When that position was called ridiculous, I feel like I was given license to be jerkish.

I will just sit this one out from now on.

You should have started a few posts sooner.

[RailBaronYarr]

Here's a thought regarding closing Park & Portland... when the Green Line opens up, we will have 2 trains, 3 cars long crossing P&P every 7.5 minutes at peak times of the day (when congestion complainers say closing these off will be terrible). Does that impact the feasibility of closing off the streets?

[Avian]

Well, the same argument can be applied to any N-S avenue downtown. Closing Park or Portland will cause increased congestion on 4th & 5th, which would lead to even longer delays on those streets due to the LRT.

[Nick]

Can we not fight for no reason?

[min-chi-cbus]

I don't expect a lot of deep thinking on this board, but I do expect a politician to be aware of the power of words and the ways they can be associated.

Hahahaha! Ding-ding-ding! You are the winner....you made me laugh out loud at my office!!!

Can the City (or private, albeit subsidized, developers) come up with a better name for this potentially great urban feature than "the Yard"? How uninspiring! How about "Guthrie Park", "DTE Commons", "Skol Stroll", "Park East", "Minneapolis Field", "Twin Park", "Viking Yard", "The Frozen Tundra", "Humphrey Commons", "MLK Park", "Kirby Park", or to bug you, redisciple, "Minneapolis' Backyard", or simply "Where Park and Portland go to die"??? Those aren't that great either, but they're a bit more specific to Minneapolis than "The Yards", at least!

[Tom H.]

Or how about Park Ave Park?

[Minneboy]

Or WTF (Wells The Field).

[twincitizen]

^Good one!

On a serious level, how about "Portland Park"?

[alleycat]

The Star & Armory Yard. Oh wait that sounds too suburban....might as well call it the mall at mall of America yard. At Rybak's state of the city he actually called it Armory Yard, which sounds quite urbane to my ears.

[min-chi-cbus]

"Armory Yard" (or "Armory Yards") isn't bad at all.

[twincitizen]

It's fine...but Rybak just ripped that off from that student real estate competition that took place a few months ago. And that makes me not like it. Especially since most of that proposal was like Block E on steroids. I really like Portland Park, then again I generally overvalue my own ideas and laugh at my own jokes.

[kregger22]

Ringing endorsement here of MumfordMoses rant yesterday - completely agree.