Bicycle Infrastructure

[Mdcastle]

Or else we could fund the police enough that they can make traffic violations illegal again and go back up to 90,000 traffic stops a year.

[VacantLuxuries]

Or, for a cheaper and far more effective solution, we could automate enforcement, as we should have done a decade ago after it was determined the constitutional issues could be resolved by ticketing the car instead of the driver.

[Hero]

Here is a quote from Minneapolis's Vision Zero Action Plan.

"Due to a variety of factors, Minneapolis Police stopped fewer than 3,000 people in 2021 for moving or equipment violations—compared to about 16,000 traffic stops in 2019 and about 90,000 traffic stops in 2012"

If traffic laws are not being enforced why should we expect people to follow them? We need to redesign our streets so enforcement is less necessary.

It's not going to work. You'll have to go to extremes. I mean we can't even keep people from driving in the city parks. The park board had to place logs all around a park to stop people from driving in it. There were even reports of drivers aiming for kids playing sports on a field to scare them. If we struggle to keep cars from going where they aren't supposed to be, how are going to modify behavior on the roads where they are intended?

There are also unintended consequences of road diets and etc. Whether it is snow clearing or allowing emergency vehicles or me watching housing contractors trying to see how they can deliver modular units for affordable housing at the intersection of a road which had a diet and a bicycle blvd.

As I've said on here before, if you reduce one area the cars just go to the next easiest place to pass through, which often is residential streets versus an artery. You'll be better off having a wider artery and less cars trying to bypass the congested artery by going down residentials streets and running stop signs. Which is more dangerous to cyclists and pedestrians? Also at an artery intersection I have a stoplight and clear visibility. Versus on a residential street I have a stop sign and often parked cars blocking my view. I sneak out into intersections and hope there isn't a car whizzing down the block toward me just out of my view. If a car is speeding it's better that they are on an artery than a residential street because you can see them coming. On a residential street it's a lot harder to see them especially if they are E/W crossing the shorter blocks. I try to use my ears as much as possible.

Shouldn't we try something? If the park board is willing to change the parks to try make them safer why not try making the streets safer? Other countries seem to function with smaller streets and without our pedestrian fatality rates. Personally I'd like to see Minneapolis try raised crosswalks. Cleveland has had some success with a similar technology.

https://www.clevescene.com/news/clevela ... h-41984053

If cars begin to use the residential street grid then I'd imagine the grid will be broken up as it has been done in several places.

https://www.google.com/maps/@44.9149941 ... ?entry=ttu

Speaking of which. Why don't they have a small path for bicycles in these?

https://www.google.com/maps/@44.916,-93 ... ?entry=ttu

[Hero]

Or else we could fund the police enough that they can make traffic violations illegal again and go back up to 90,000 traffic stops a year.

I would be more likely to somewhat agree with this statement if it were any other police department. Plus I suspect traffic crime (or crime in general) is more complicated than how many police officers are on duty.

[Oreos&Milk]

Here is a quote from Minneapolis's Vision Zero Action Plan.

"Due to a variety of factors, Minneapolis Police stopped fewer than 3,000 people in 2021 for moving or equipment violations—compared to about 16,000 traffic stops in 2019 and about 90,000 traffic stops in 2012"

If traffic laws are not being enforced why should we expect people to follow them? We need to redesign our streets so enforcement is less necessary.

"being enforced" was aka "revenue collecting" However being things have changed and collecting those pennies is not as desirable. I completely agree, we need to shift to where enforcement is less necessary. More roundabouts, less intersections, and more dead-ends.

Maybe not the best campaign slogan, but real conversations for real progress for a better city.

[Tom H.]

Or else we could fund the police enough that they can make traffic violations illegal again and go back up to 90,000 traffic stops a year.

I would be more likely to somewhat agree with this statement if it were any other police department. Plus I suspect traffic crime (or crime in general) is more complicated than how many police officers are on duty.

Notwithstanding the constitutional / legal issues which may or may not be solved, I think this is an argument in favor of automated enforcement of objective violations (e.g. speeding, running red lights) that does not involve discretion of officers. And I say this as a "victim" of the Cedar Rapids I-380 speed trap / mail ticket scheme.

[Mdcastle]

Wonder if we can have cameras take and issue tickets for expired registrations and defective equipment. A defective brake light is a safety hazard to both the occupants of the vehicle and other vehicles on the road. That's why we bother to require brake lights.

[Tyler]

Or else we could fund the police enough that they can make traffic violations illegal again and go back up to 90,000 traffic stops a year.

who's "we"?

[MNdible]

I'm fine with automated enforcement, but do we really think that the people who are blowing through stoplights in cars with expired tabs are going to bother paying a fine they get in the mail?

[SurlyLHT]

*The camera's are part of the Vision Zero plan. They are hoping to get something passed in St Paul to allow for it.
*I think the cameras will help with some of the infractions, however when the issue is stolen Kias they aren't going to help. The AG and others have been working on it and it's unresolved. MPD is hesitating to chase them, so they pretty much do what they want include taunt the police. (The criteria for chases I think prevents most of these chases. This is also after the lawsuit and death in Camden last year during a chase.) This is a larger crime issues across the nation. I personally wonder if drones may help.

As a cyclist I fear the Kia's most. I can be careful, but if someone is running signs at 50 mph down my street I won't see them until it's too late. I saw some stolen Kia's at North Commons park recently, they slowed down at stop sign, I remember thinking, "Oh how nice, they're being a bit less reckless." Then I noted which way they turned and kept my eye out for them.

IF you want to know how crazy things are. Near my house they thought someone was hit by a car, no they person was riding on top of a stolen car for fun and fell off.

The Kia's are bad, bicycle organizations and lobbying groups should join the chorus pressuring these companies.

[Mdcastle]

Maybe we can get spike strips that automatically deploy if a car with expired registration or unpaid tickets passes a camera.

[Nick]

Every car driving around with missing and/or obscured license plates, or tabs that are a year expired, should be pulled over, towed, and crushed. You could have people from CURA run the car crusher if patronage jobs are a concern.

[Oreos&Milk]

Shall we invite the children from kars4kids.org to watch as well?

[schwinnletour]

Cedar Lake Trail to downtown is now closed until 2025. Was supposed to reopen in 2021.

"The Kenilworth Trail, a popular downtown commuter line between Lake of the Isles and Cedar Lake, has been closed since 2019 and won't reopen until 2025."

"The North Cedar Lake Trail that runs near downtown Minneapolis will also be closed until 2025, and sections of the South Cedar Lake Trail in Hopkins and St. Louis Park will be closed until 2024."

"These trails were supposed to open in 2021 or 2022, the Met Council originally said when blocking them off for construction of the Green Line between Minneapolis and Eden Prairie."

https://www.axios.com/local/twin-cities ... losed-2025

Meanwhile, very few shutdowns of roadways for car traffic have been observed as part of this project. And when roads have been blocked, it's for months, not for over half a decade.

Has this frustrated anyone else?

[Silophant]

Yep. I'm becoming convinced that the "two-year" closure of Cedar Lake Trail was a fabrication the whole time. It's been nearly four years now, and they're not even remotely close to finishing up the Glenwood/LRT bridge. Admittedly, Glenwood has been completely closed for this whole time, but it's not nearly as important to the roadway system as CLT is to the trail system.

[daveybabymsp]

Cedar Lake Trail to downtown is now closed until 2025. Was supposed to reopen in 2021.

"The Kenilworth Trail, a popular downtown commuter line between Lake of the Isles and Cedar Lake, has been closed since 2019 and won't reopen until 2025."

"The North Cedar Lake Trail that runs near downtown Minneapolis will also be closed until 2025, and sections of the South Cedar Lake Trail in Hopkins and St. Louis Park will be closed until 2024."

"These trails were supposed to open in 2021 or 2022, the Met Council originally said when blocking them off for construction of the Green Line between Minneapolis and Eden Prairie."

https://www.axios.com/local/twin-cities ... losed-2025

Meanwhile, very few shutdowns of roadways for car traffic have been observed as part of this project. And when roads have been blocked, it's for months, not for over half a decade.

Has this frustrated anyone else?

Yeah this has been driving me crazy, the cedar lake trail is such a key route and closing it for 6 years is ridiculous. I also wish they had created better infrastructure for the detour on 11th/12th downtown where the trail closes, if it is detoured for 6 years I would like to feel safe on the detour


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SurlyLHT]

It's a huge project, I don't know what you all expect? A huge reason for the delays is the tunnel which is costing a ton and will primarily benefit cyclists. As a cyclist and taxpayer I wish they didn't do the tunnel at all, but what is done is done.

[schwinnletour]

It's a huge project, I don't know what you all expect? A huge reason for the delays is the tunnel which is costing a ton and will primarily benefit cyclists. As a cyclist and taxpayer I wish they didn't do the tunnel at all, but what is done is done.

I guess I was hoping for some accommodations that aren't a hail mary for the individuals biking the detours. Downtown detours are a hot mess and hard to follow even if you occasionally bike them.

The Cedar Lake Trail out to Hopkins runs parallel to Excelsior. Excelsior is way overbuilt and even during rush hour in the morning and evenings its basically a ghost town.

I would have put up some Jersey barriers and given a lane over to bike traffic. This wasn't done though.

[daveybabymsp]

It's a huge project, I don't know what you all expect? A huge reason for the delays is the tunnel which is costing a ton and will primarily benefit cyclists. As a cyclist and taxpayer I wish they didn't do the tunnel at all, but what is done is done.

I think a lot of the frustration is due to the change from a 2-3 year closure to a 6 year closure. However, the root of the issue is the lack of redundancy in our bike infrastructure. Closing one trail is a reasonable thing to do for a project like this but the problem is that all of the alternative routes suck. Biking from where i live in NE to the lakes is way way worse for this 6 year closure.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Anondson]

If the project was more forthcoming ASAP it might have been possible that the county and municipalities made more long term plans for more robust detours, instead of signs pointing towards paint protected gutter-lanes on dangerous county roads.

I have some hope imagining that it was known much sooner that it would be a six-year-closure then it might have resulted in far better protected detouring.