Street, Road and Highway Projects

[DanPatchToget]

An article I wrote about Old Shakopee and the need for greatly improved bike/pedestrian infrastructure along this corridor from 5 years ago: https://streets.mn/2020/07/17/old-shako ... -corridor/

If what they're proposing goes through then that will be quite an improvement, at least for that segment of Old Shakopee, but I also would much prefer pedestrians and cyclists are separated, especially for a busy corridor like this with a lot of destinations that a significant amount of people can and do access by foot or bike.

[twincitizen]

It costs $22 million to build less than a mile of road? I get why that might be the case in a downtown environment, but here?

Also, yikes at all of the block-length right turn lanes shown in that layout. Bloomington gonna Bloomington.

[DanPatchToget]

I just now remembered a ped crossing with RRFBs was built just east of Nicollet Avenue recently, but it's not shown on the map.

[wingedmolotov]

I just now remembered a ped crossing with RRFBs was built just east of Nicollet Avenue recently, but it's not shown on the map.

Yeah, I was wondering about that.


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[Mdcastle]

Things I like: Mups instead of bicycle lanes, removing the free right turns and dual west to south double turn, presumably finally getting flashing yellow arrows.
Things I don't like: removing the north and south right turn lanes and the doulble east to north turn lane, keeping the Garfield traffic signal

Flashing yellow arrows should help, that intersection is still a huge pain to get through in a car even before reducing capacity, traffic regularly backs up well beyond the left turn lanes to make left turns off Lyndale. I live a bit south and east of here on Pleasant and I have to drive through this intersection daily, usually several times daily to get to fast-food on Lyndale and Valley West or to the I-35W ramps. I'd also wish they'd built a median across Pleasant, not being able to make a left turn is a worthwhile tradeoff for reducing the traffic driving by my house. There's regularly cut-through traffic on my street that doesn't live here but is trying to avoid all the congestion at 98th and Lyndale.

[DanPatchToget]

Things I like: Mups instead of bicycle lanes

I get some people don't want to bike on the road, whether there's an unprotected or protected bike lane, but forcing pedestrian and bike traffic to mix, especially on a busy corridor like this, is just not how to design good infrastructure for pedestrians and cyclists. For those of us who bike to get places it's difficult to reach speeds that are above a leisurely pace when there's one or more side streets/driveways every block that typically have hard bumps and bad blindspots where a car could pop out in front of us at the last second, and then on top of that having pedestrians taking the entire width of the trail and are completely oblivious when we're trying to give them a heads up of our approach.

I'd rather we have a slightly wider sidewalk for those who don't feel comfortable biking on the street and will bike at a leisurely pace, and bike lanes (preferably protected) for those who are more confident biking on the street and want to go at faster speeds without having to dodge pedestrians and cross traffic.

[wingedmolotov]

My personal preference is sidewalk level protected, barrier protected, shared trail, on street lane. But there's clearly a decent amount of RoW here, so I don't see why we should settle for anything other than full protection.

[Mdcastle]

A "slightly wider sidewalk" is still way too bumpy to ride a bicycle on, even at slower speed that kids other non "strong and fearless" types do, and eScooters aren't allowed on them.

[wingedmolotov]

E-scooters are treated like e-bikes, right? So they’d be allowed on sidewalks too.


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[Mdcastle]

Minnesota Statute 169.225

"Subd. 2.Sidewalk and passenger prohibition. No person may operate a motorized foot scooter upon a sidewalk, except when necessary to enter or leave adjacent property."

[Mdcastle]

Kind of curious how many of the newly planted trees will be salvagable.

Also the new right turn lane from 98th to northbound I-35W will be extremely welcome. That's how I get ont the freeway if I'm going north and typically a car that wants to go straight will be stopped in the right lane, blocking a dozen cars that want to turn onto the freeway.

FWIW I'll admit to riding my eScooter down the sidewalk on 98th street as to avoid getting creamed riding in a traffic lane, have seen other people do it, and the cops ignore it. I've also seen kids under 12 riding them and teenagers riding without a helmet and the cops don't care about those either. I have solid wheels with no suspension though so it's Extremely bumpy.

[quagga]

Minnesota Statute 169.225

"Subd. 2.Sidewalk and passenger prohibition. No person may operate a motorized foot scooter upon a sidewalk, except when necessary to enter or leave adjacent property."

Huh. The way "sidewalk" is defined (subd. 75 below), it is unclear if this also technically bans scooters on shared use paths (169.011):

Subd. 6.Bicycle path. "Bicycle path" means a bicycle facility designed for exclusive or preferential use by persons using bicycles and constructed or developed separately from the roadway or shoulder.

Subd. 9.Bikeway. "Bikeway" means a bicycle lane, bicycle path, bicycle route, shared use path, or similar bicycle facility, regardless of whether it is designed for the exclusive use of bicycles or for shared use with other transportation modes.

Subd. 73a.Shared use path. "Shared use path" means a bicycle facility that is (1) physically separated from motorized vehicular traffic by an open space or barrier, (2) located within either the highway right-of-way or an independent right-of-way, and (3) available for use by other nonmotorized users.

Subd. 75.Sidewalk. "Sidewalk" means that portion of a street between the curb lines, or the lateral lines of a roadway, and the adjacent property lines intended for the use of pedestrians.

[angrysuburbanite]

Anyone else gotten a chance to walk around the completed Hennepin/1st reconstruction? I'm in love with the much narrower roadway and the bikeways! It is super awesome to see the freshly-painted red bus lanes, but it is really depressing to see said bus lanes clogged with parked cars since they apparently are "weekdays only" even though buses do in fact run on weekends. The northbound lanes on Hennepin were completely parked up (including in front of some of the non-BRT bus stops), but the southbound lanes were mostly clear and have queue jumps so those were still useful for the many buses I saw today on a Sunday (!). At least if there are no parked cars they can still be used by buses.

It is really disappointing since the streetscape itself is awesome and exactly what every major street in Minneapolis should look like, but it isn't being used how it is intended at all, at least on weekends when I guess bus riders don't have to go anywhere quickly. I can't wait for Hennepin Ave in Uptown to have the same problem but during the middle of the weekday! Fun fact: of the roughly 3.4 miles of bus lanes on the E Line, only ~0.8 of those miles (23%) are functional on weekends. This will of course encourage people to utilize our highest form of bus service for trips outside of commuting hours, since the bus will continue to get stuck in traffic and also have to weave in and out of the bus lanes--wait I mean parking spaces. Yes, this city cares a lot about transit riders.

[Mdcastle]

Bloomington's code seems vague as to if escooters are allowed on MUPs. The applicable ordinance is:

§ 8.30 PROHIBITED AREAS AND ACTS.
It is unlawful for any person to operate a personal recreational vehicle

(2) On publicly owned land, that is not a dedicated street or road, including school grounds, park property, playgrounds, recreation areas and golf courses,

(4) On a public sidewalk or walkway provided or used for pedestrian travel;

So we're left with the previous question as if a MUP is legally a "sidewalk" or if a MUP is part of a "dedicated street". Also since Three Rivers specifically allows them on trails under their jursiction would that override the city ordinance?

[wingedmolotov]

Does your e-scooter go over 20mph?


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[Mdcastle]

Possibly with someone considerably lighter than me downhill with the 18.6 mph speed limiter turned off (that corresponds to 30 km/hr which I guess is a limit in a lot of other countries).

I personally don't get more than around 15-16 mph on it on flat surfaces with the throttle maxed out.

[Wezle]

I think the biggest upgrade in the Hennepin and 1st upgrades are the additions to the pedestrian realm. The sidewalk feels so much more comfortable, crossings are narrower, and the removal of the vehicle crossing at 5th where Hennepin and Central meet is 1000x nicer than what it was before. No more having to wait for 3 light cycles to cross on foot.

[wingedmolotov]

Possibly with someone considerably lighter than me downhill with the 18.6 mph speed limiter turned off (that corresponds to 30 km/hr which I guess is a limit in a lot of other countries).

I personally don't get more than around 15-16 mph on it on flat surfaces with the throttle maxed out.

Your e-scooter (and probably most) should be fine then.

"PERSONAL RECREATIONAL VEHICLE. Any self-propelled vehicle, power assisted vehicle and any vehicle propelled or drawn by a self-propelled vehicle powered by a motor having a piston displacement capacity of over 25 cubic centimeters or an electric motor that is capable of propelling the vehicle at a speed in excess of 20 mph on a flat surface, including, but not limited to, trail bikes, mini-bikes, go-carts, motorized scooters or motorized skateboards (also known as “powerboards”). Motorized golf carts operated on property principally used as a golf course are exempt from the regulations of this chapter."

[DanPatchToget]

A "slightly wider sidewalk" is still way too bumpy to ride a bicycle on, even at slower speed that kids other non "strong and fearless" types do, and eScooters aren't allowed on them.

A sidewalk doesn't have to be concrete. Could be made of asphalt, so basically a narrower trail, although even if it was made of concrete, I'm much less annoyed by the little bumps on the sidewalk, and more annoyed by the big bumps at cross streets. In some cases all that's needed is replacing the concrete pad, but in other cases there's a big difference between the elevation of the sidewalk and the cross street, so unless a lot of effort is made to smooth the transition between sidewalk/trail level and the level of the cross street it's going to be a big bump. Not to mention the blindspots at cross streets, so even if you don't have to slow down for a big bump, you'll still need to slow down to make sure it's clear before crossing. Having to do that pretty much every block, and even more if there's also driveways to deal with, makes it much slower than using a bike lane.

[twincitizen]

Lyndale Avenue reconstruction posts moved to dedicated thread: viewtopic.php?t=4759