Street, Road and Highway Projects

Roads - Rails - Sidewalks - Bikeways
gopherfan
Nicollet Mall
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Re: Street, Road and Highway Projects

Post by gopherfan »

Highway 10 in Coon Rapids 3rd lane freeway expansion project presentation & public comment notice before April 18 https://destinyhosted.com/coonrdocs/202 ... 4Mar20.pdf
Multimodal
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Re: Street, Road and Highway Projects

Post by Multimodal »

Wezle wrote: March 21st, 2024, 8:02 am Regardless of the possible changes to the transit lanes, I'm really excited about this reconstruction. It narrows lanes, includes bumpouts, adds protected bike lanes, expands pedestrian space, reduces parking, adds part time transit lanes, and removes a slip lane and the 5th St crossing of Hennepin and Central to give space to pedestrians/cyclists. Plus there is a lot of green stormwater infrastructure being added to what is currently a lot of pavement!

This is going to be a huge upgrade in an area that sees a lot of pedestrian activity. I've personally found parts of this area to be a bit treacherous as a pedestrian so I for one can't wait!
That's all great, but if we want to reduce cars, improve walkability & equity, and not have the planet catch on fire, we need to prioritize transit & reduce car infrastructure (parking, etc.) everywhere we can.

This is clearly the work of the new anti-transit Mpls Public Works.
Wezle
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Re: Street, Road and Highway Projects

Post by Wezle »

I agree, fortunately part time vs full time transit lanes are a policy decision rather than an infrastructure change. A future more transit and climate friendly mayoral admin/city council could make the change back to full time lanes.

The bike lanes here are going to be a really big positive change as the area acts as a gateway to Northeast and will further connect safe cycling areas. Especially for people who are less comfortable biking in mixed traffic.
angrysuburbanite
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Re: Street, Road and Highway Projects

Post by angrysuburbanite »

I am fed up with Frey caving to business owners complaining about parking removal in favor of transit lanes. If I remember correctly one of the reasons stated for the "part time" thing was because lack of parking would effect BIPOC businesses, which is super shallow in my opinion because many BIPOC people rely on transit and not having transit lanes hinders their mobility, which I think is more of an equity concern.

Also, is public works stupid? Without lots of enforcement, part time transit lanes are going to be really difficult to manage since it isn't a consistent rule, and many people are too lazy to figure out whether or not it is "peak periods" or whatever.

Finally, an open note to Minneapolis: PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD move on from prioritizing cars over transit. In places like Hennepin Avenue, transit has a modal share of around 40%. If these people were in cars, that would be enough traffic to probably warrant some dumb "mobility improvement project" aka road widening. This modal share is more than enough to warrant dedicated space on the roadway. You have a pretty good transit system that is hindered by your reckless decisions to prioritize the worst form of transportation---cars. If you want to meet your climate and modal share goals, you need to do more to reach them, not just rely on Metro Transit to get there on their own.
MNdible
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Re: Street, Road and Highway Projects

Post by MNdible »

There are a lot of ADA ramps being reconstructed around town this spring. Purely anecdotal, but it seems like rebuilds done over the last couple of years featured a continuous, radiused ramp serving both directions. With this year's projects, it seems like most (but not all) ramps have two perpendicular ramps serving the two directions of travel. Any insight into this difference, or what criteria go into making a decision on this?
Wezle
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Re: Street, Road and Highway Projects

Post by Wezle »

I've heard that the facing of the tactile strips towards the crosswalk helps guide those who are blind better than one that faces directly into the middle of the intersection. I'm not sure if that's the reasoning behind the change though. In terms of decision making, public works has a lot of leeway in deciding on the minutiae of programs like sidewalk repair and ADA ramps and such as long as it fits into the funding and guidelines set by larger council/committee agendas.
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Re: Street, Road and Highway Projects

Post by MNdible »

Wezle wrote: April 23rd, 2024, 12:51 pm I've heard that the facing of the tactile strips towards the crosswalk helps guide those who are blind better than one that faces directly into the middle of the intersection.
Intuitively, that makes a lot of sense to me -- but then why would they use the fully radiused ramps in some instances?
thespeedmccool
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Re: Street, Road and Highway Projects

Post by thespeedmccool »

MNdible wrote: April 24th, 2024, 10:32 am
Wezle wrote: April 23rd, 2024, 12:51 pm I've heard that the facing of the tactile strips towards the crosswalk helps guide those who are blind better than one that faces directly into the middle of the intersection.
Intuitively, that makes a lot of sense to me -- but then why would they use the fully radiused ramps in some instances?
I'm not an engineer, but I imagine it has to do with the slope of the pedestrian ramps and geometry of the intersection.

The nearer to the intersection the ramp, the harder it is to achieve the proper grade and directional ramps. Thus, the closer the ramp to the intersection, the more you see omnidirectional ramps.

Just a guess though
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Re: Street, Road and Highway Projects

Post by MNdible »

thespeedmccool wrote: April 24th, 2024, 11:03 am The nearer to the intersection the ramp, the harder it is to achieve the proper grade and directional ramps. Thus, the closer the ramp to the intersection, the more you see omnidirectional ramps.
I can definitely imagine cases where that would be true, but I also know of a number of instances where geometry wouldn't have dictated it, which makes me think that the radiused design was a public works preference that they may have changed based on feedback (from blind users? from snow clearers?).

Just speculating, and I may be mis-extrapolating based on limited data. But if there's anybody from public works lurking here, I'd love to hear the backstory.
rhettcarlson
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Re: Street, Road and Highway Projects

Post by rhettcarlson »

I've never been a fan of the continuous radial ramps. They seem to have a wider more generous radius, and they're an invitation for cars to take corners faster with no consequence of hitting a raised chunk of concrete - the whole benefit of grade-separated sidewalks in the first place. I hope they are switching back to the traditional directional ones.
StandishGuy
Nicollet Mall
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Re: Street, Road and Highway Projects

Post by StandishGuy »

Not an engineer. Just a blind guy who travels independently around Minneapolis. My understanding is that the new ramps are meeting the ADA guidance while having the benefit of orienting visually impaired people to the crosswalk. The previous versions were almost certainly a cost saving measure and the design likely worked well due to the rounded off geometry of corners to facilitate faster car turning movements. IMO the new designs are great and I really appreciate them.
Korh
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Re: Street, Road and Highway Projects

Post by Korh »

I think some people might disagree, but thinking about some of the discussion about burying/cap and covering I-94, I kinda think highway 7 between 100 and 494 might be better suited in small sections in Hopkins and SLP.
I kinda view that section of 7 as what my parents used to say 169 was like before 1988 when it was still CASH 18 (even more so before Louisiana and Wooddale where grade separated), thinking about the current layout I don't see why Texas ave and Blake rd both have to connect, one can be removed and one can be separated like Wooddale. the crossings at 5th and 12th seems almost useless someone can point to some traffic volumes to say otherwise, that whole section can be shoved underground. and something could be done with hopkins crossroads and shady oak since IMO those are the two worst intersection on the highway
rhettcarlson
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Re: Street, Road and Highway Projects

Post by rhettcarlson »

StandishGuy wrote: April 25th, 2024, 3:27 pm Not an engineer. Just a blind guy who travels independently around Minneapolis. My understanding is that the new ramps are meeting the ADA guidance while having the benefit of orienting visually impaired people to the crosswalk. The previous versions were almost certainly a cost saving measure and the design likely worked well due to the rounded off geometry of corners to facilitate faster car turning movements. IMO the new designs are great and I really appreciate them.
This is good input and I hope the city is hearing about it. Anyone have an example of new directional ramps under construction?
blo442
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Re: Street, Road and Highway Projects

Post by blo442 »

MNdible wrote: April 23rd, 2024, 11:55 am There are a lot of ADA ramps being reconstructed around town this spring. Purely anecdotal, but it seems like rebuilds done over the last couple of years featured a continuous, radiused ramp serving both directions. With this year's projects, it seems like most (but not all) ramps have two perpendicular ramps serving the two directions of travel. Any insight into this difference, or what criteria go into making a decision on this?
If anyone on this board is suffering from severe insomnia, the full PROWAG regulations on accessibility in the right of way are available at https://www.access-board.gov/prowag/ to help you get to sleep.

Having designed a few ramps myself, the separate directional ramps are preferred when possible. What's challenging is Minnesota's ADA standards state that the width of the curb ramp should match the width of the approaching sidewalk (typically 6-8' in Minneapolis) rather than just a flat 4' width as required by PROWAG. Often once you provide the wider ramps, there's no space in between them which results in the shared radial ramp design.

Minneapolis Public Works has in the past year or two explicitly stated a preference for two separate directional/perpendicular ramps at intersection quadrants. This is starting to be incorporated into designs, unfortunately sometimes the designers make it work by moving the ramp away from the intersection so it no longer lines up with the approaching sidewalk. See the new pedestrian median intersections on N Lyndale for an example.

One interesting note is that depending on which division of Public Works is directing the project, the intersection design can end up very different. If the project manager is in Traffic, they will prioritize meeting the truck turn movement requirements from the Street Design Guide, which typically result in a larger radius and combined radial curb ramps. If the PM is in Planning, they'll tell you it's ok if the trucks/buses can't make the turn if it allows for a shorter crossing & better ramps (and if the designer doesn't push back on that, Bryant Ave happens...).

There are other factors that go into the design, the Accessible Pedestrian Signal rules in PROWAG (which MN is one of the only states that's actually implemented to date) are very nitpicky and can lead to subpar ramp designs, and wide boulevards/bumpouts can make it a lot easier to design good ramps, among other factors. But I've already written a novel here.
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Re: Street, Road and Highway Projects

Post by MNdible »

Thank you! Just the kind of response I was hoping for.
blo442 wrote: April 26th, 2024, 8:15 pmWhat's challenging is Minnesota's ADA standards state that the width of the curb ramp should match the width of the approaching sidewalk (typically 6-8' in Minneapolis) rather than just a flat 4' width as required by PROWAG. Often once you provide the wider ramps, there's no space in between them which results in the shared radial ramp design.
This bit here seems like it's probably the crux of the problem. If I were in charge, I'd say that it's less important to have the sidewalk width match if it allows you to a construct a geometry that works better for everybody. Obviously, a lot of this depends on situational awareness -- a lightly used sidewalk in a residential area is different than one downtown, etc.

Thinking about it more, I do suspect that the radial designs are easier for when the city clears out the sidewalk corners after heavy snows. They tend to do it with skid-steers or maybe even pickups, so the open geometry of the radial ramps is probably better for that.

Anyway, sorry for obsessing over this, but it does seem like a really important part of our built environment that we really haven't figured out yet.
Wezle
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Re: Street, Road and Highway Projects

Post by Wezle »

MNDOT shared a survey with information about University Ave NE improvements scheduled for 2027. Current mockups look pretty transformative for pedestrian access in Northeast and will really compliment the changes made this year and next year to Hennepin and 1st and University and 4th.

Take the survey here: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/3F5GL6B
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Nick
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Re: Street, Road and Highway Projects

Post by Nick »

That's one of the last four lane death roads!
Nick Magrino
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Silophant
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Re: Street, Road and Highway Projects

Post by Silophant »

Yeah, with Central also up for reconstruction in 2028, it's probably time to start working on Hennepin County to finish the 4-3 conversion of Broadway from University to 94.
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alexschief
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Re: Street, Road and Highway Projects

Post by alexschief »

Might finally be possible to cross the street to get to Hai Hai without risking your life.
Wezle
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Re: Street, Road and Highway Projects

Post by Wezle »

Looks like MNDOT is pushing back their redesign of University and 4th between I35W and Central Ave from 2025 to 2027. A silver lining is that they've expanded the scope of the project to include the 2 bridges crossing I94, which will help connect the project to Hennepin county's reconstruction of University and 4th on the other side of I35W.

15% project presentation here: https://lims.minneapolismn.gov/download ... eeting.pdf
Last edited by Wezle on June 3rd, 2024, 8:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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