urbanMSP

WEll hot damn, I thought that had been changed in STP. Henn-Lake still closes at 8pm though.

This "small business" hogwash is the same garbage conservatives use to justify their anti-consumerism. Sunday liquor sales isn't just a "faux progressive/libertarian" thing like you imply, but a question of consumer choice. I'll pick consumer choice over the objections of a business lobby any day, even if that lobby includes DFLers. Rent Seeking =/= Liberalism.

There are other things to be done to "protect" small businesses, if that's a value favored. A city can modify zoning to allow liquor stores only under a specific square footage that make the massive warehouse stores unfeasible.

Equating product safety, consumer information and anti usury regulation to a bearded bro social media hobby horse is hogwash. Like unions not all business lobbies are the same. Police and fire fighter unions exist to excuse misconduct among their members and drain municipal finances with ludicrous work rules, over staffing and ridiculous pensions. the liquor store lobby runs counter to most business lobbies. They promote small business and more vibrant urban commercial districts. The limited downside to consumers and the nature of the liquor business, in my mind, favor maintaining the Sunday sales ban.

People shop for all kinds of stuff in other municipalities. If it weren't so shitty, I would consider going to Richfield liquor if I happened to be at best buy.

getting Sunday sales through the legislature would take heavy lifting from those at the top. Dfl leaders and the governor would promote progressive outcomes by not wasting precious political capital on such a divisive but minor issue.

a bearded bro social media hobby horse

I am neither bearded nor social. Whether I am a bro is I guess in the eye of the beholder.

I *maybe* take two drinks a month.

I still want Sunday sales because weekdays are impossible for me (evening child care) and Saturdays are precious family time.

I'm under 21 and Hate the taste of beer, so it sounds like you're projecting.

It's weird when you think about it: Democrats defending a remnant of old religious laws in the name of business.

Edit: going just a bit further, the notion that there will be absolutely no new sales if businesses are open an extra day is ludicrous. The additional amount of sales, the additional
utility to consumers, and the fact that time will no longer be wasted on this issue - - by the legislature, or anyone else - -, will easily pay for the bit of extra labor costs (which are only part of operating/total costs anyways).

Ever notice how other retail sectors are dominated by massive publicly traded corporations and large regional chains? I have and I don't like it. The ship sailed long ago on target being the place selling the most toilet paper in Minnesota. I do not think it's realistic to legislate the return of mom and pop general stores.

I'd really like to see something backing up the idea that the ability for any other sector of retail to stay open on all 7 days of the week is the primary cause of the dominance of large/publicly traded corps and chains. I mean, is that even in the top 10 reasons? Top 20??

Given the number of municipal liquor stores across the state, the evidence from bordering states that small liquor stores still exist, plus studies that show opening up another day of sales/availability does indeed increase alcohol sales, to say nothing of the fact that liquor stores represent an extremely small percent of our retail economy... it's a reeeeaally weird hill to die on for progressivism. All the money and effort and words spoken advocating for blocking Sunday sales could be spent so so so much better on actual reforms to policies that make owning a small business (be it liquor or other) in our state easier, or policies that improve lives for workers. But whatever.

MinnPost article.

It's very weird to be on the same side of an issue as Tony "Kindergarten teachers should be carrying" Cornish.

Jesus would drink on Sunday.

Ever notice how other retail sectors are dominated by massive publicly traded corporations and large regional chains? I have and I don't like it. The ship sailed long ago on target being the place selling the most toilet paper in Minnesota. I do not think it's realistic to legislate the return of mom and pop general stores.

I'd really like to see something backing up the idea that the ability for any other sector of retail to stay open on all 7 days of the week is the primary cause of the dominance of large/publicly traded corps and chains. I mean, is that even in the top 10 reasons? Top 20??

Probably a bigger factor in the number of small liquor stores are a couple of other state laws. The state law that requires liquor only be sold at stores that exclusively sell liquor, and the state law that says you can only operate one liquor store per municipality. Those requirements are probably doing the most to benefit "mom and pop."

My continued beef with this whole thing is, what in this is the government's interest to regulate, that's specific to only liquor stores, that justifies the specifically Sunday ban? The traditional answer to that was easy: it was in the interest of the moral fiber of the community. But we have culturally decided (rightly) that both elements to that argument are bogus: the "alcohol is bad" piece, as well as the "we must protect Christian morality" piece.

So what's left that's in the public's interest for government to regulate? A balance of small business owners against big businesses? Okay, if we accept that this is a good reason to regulate, then why aren't we extending the same to *ALL* businesses? Why don't small hardware store owners, or small restaurant owners, or small electronics-store owners, or small shoe-store owners, etc. get the government protecting them by forcing them to be closed one day a week?

But okay, let's accept that that *IS* a valid reason, and maybe for some cultural reason we've already lost the chance to protect all those other businesses, but luck has it that we can still protect the liquor store owners, isn't that great? Fine. So why SUNDAY specifically? If they want to show it's not a BLUE LAW, then they can change the law to say all liquor stores must be closed one day a week, but THEY GET TO PICK THE DAY. Guess what, no liquor store in their right mind would choose Sunday. Which is fine by me.

I guess what bugs me is that nobody's talking about *WHY* they're so interested in protecting this one business group's interests given that they obviously don't have the same concerns for any other industry. I suspect that if we follow the money we'll find out why. But I don't begrudge the liquor store owners that, and I'm sure it's not actually illegal. But since our representatives ARE supposed to answer to us, I suspect the sensible compromise that allows them to keep their campaign donors happy while also actually following the will of the people, is to amend the current law to maintain the requirement that liquor stores be open only six days per week, but remove the specific Sunday exclusion, and allow the liquor stores to choose which day they close. This will obviously give us, the consumers, the ability to buy alcohol seven days a week, while protecting the small-business liquor stores from big mega companies.

I guess what bugs me is that nobody's talking about *WHY* they're so interested in protecting this one business group's interests given that they obviously don't have the same concerns for any other industry. I suspect that if we follow the money we'll find out why.

Probably for the same reason car dealerships are closed on Sunday. Dealers like having a day off without worrying about competition. Unlike grocery stores or hardware stores (that compete with the influential businesses like Home Depot, Target, Walmart, etc.), perhaps small liquor stores still outnumber the big box stores statewide and can influence legislators. I don't know, but liquor stores in Hudson are probably happy about the outcome.

Equating product safety, consumer information and anti usury regulation to a bearded bro social media hobby horse is hogwash. Like unions not all business lobbies are the same. Police and fire fighter unions exist to excuse misconduct among their members and drain municipal finances with ludicrous work rules, over staffing and ridiculous pensions. the liquor store lobby runs counter to most business lobbies. They promote small business and more vibrant urban commercial districts. The limited downside to consumers and the nature of the liquor business, in my mind, favor maintaining the Sunday sales ban.

People shop for all kinds of stuff in other municipalities. If it weren't so shitty, I would consider going to Richfield liquor if I happened to be at best buy.


getting Sunday sales through the legislature would take heavy lifting from those at the top. Dfl leaders and the governor would promote progressive outcomes by not wasting precious political capital on such a divisive but minor issue.

Hang up

We're way behind a lot of states on a number of other fronts besides this - on/off sale combined (bottle shops with a bar, any bar can sell to go), growler fills at any liquor store of any beer, brewpubs that are allowed to distribute, arbitrary limitations on growler fills at taprooms and brewery taprooms that can serve other people's product. I'm a little surprised the industry isn't pushing for some of these in lieu of sunday sales or in addition - who knows what the appetite will be, but most of those seem to be making the pie bigger for everybody in other states I've traveled to.

Revised bill for Sunday Sales

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/bills/text.p ... n_number=0

Revisions:

10 am to 6 pm as opposed to 8 am to 10 pm

No deliveries would occur on Sunday

Looks like several bills have been introduced with the usual options: full repeal, only allowing sales 10-6 (and no deliveries), and leaving it up to municipalities.

Do cities currently have the option to regulate liquor store hours beyond what state law permits already?

Either way, I think a full repeal (as long as cities have the option to regulate similar to other days of the week) is in order.

They do. St. Paul, for example, just recently started to allow liquor sales past 8pm on weeknights.

State law is a maximum. For instance, Saint Paul didn't allow liquor store to be open past 8pm on weekdays until just recently. A city could not allow Sunday sales now, but they could continue to prohibit them if state law changed to allow it.

(that is unless a provision prohibiting city-level controls was specifically written into a bill, which would probably kill it.)

Amazing. Hopefully this passes before I'm 21.