The Eclipse

[IllogicalJake]

Can we take our parking discussions to Anything Goes where it belongs. This is a page about the Eclipse and how we perceive the buildings short coming, not the issues of who live where and how we park cars.

I love that even after this post, there's still a half-page of pointless parking arguments. At this point it seems like all opinions have been aired (and are getting repetitive,) and this isn't a winnable debate on either side.

[seanrichardryan]

3C?

[Tcmetro]

Oh, if there were a like button on this site...

[twincitizen]

PDF posted for March 6 Committee of the Whole meeting: http://www.minneapolismn.gov/www/groups ... 121273.pdf

I'm not sure if there's anything new here. Perhaps some additional details on the parking and how spaces will be allocated.

Page 16 is level one floor plan. I gotta say, I'm loving the zero curb cuts on Hennepin!

[David Greene]

I don't find the parking discussion annoying at all. Personally, I don't really care how much parking this thing has (up to a point) but I think it is very interesting to talk about the effects of parking on the neighborhood. Design isn't just about cladding and finishing materials. I think it's a good thing to start talking about how design impacts the surrounding community rather than taking the siloed view of how the building looks in and of itself. Keep talking about design in this way and eventually the processes will shift to encourage better building integration into the community.

This is also why I think the Lyndale/Franklin development is interesting. It's getting at the same questions.

[TommyT]

I rather like how the renderings look in this PDF. I think it will be a nice addition to that area.

[John]

I think it's a good thing to start talking about how design impacts the surrounding community rather than taking the siloed view of how the building looks in and of itself. Keep talking about design in this way and eventually the processes will shift to encourage better building integration into the community.

This is also why I think the Lyndale/Franklin development is interesting. It's getting at the same questions.

The design of a project and how it integrates and impacts an area should be considered way before community input. A good developer and architect will do this as part of their planning. I know the Lyndale /Franklin project has gotten a lot of flack from the community, however, it is clear from the preliminary design the developer has put some effort and thought into how it relates to the intersection and street level etc. Still not so sure this was a primary concern with the Eclipse.

After looking at the renderings again , phase one of the Eclipse does works better (especially at the upper levels) than the future phase two at Hennepin /Washington which remains too monolith. I'm thinking If they would improve the street frontage of the overall project, and tweak phase two to be a bit more sensitive to the corner , this project will be acceptable at least from an aesthetic standpoint.

[FISHMANPET]

Yeah, the renderings do show the glass a bit better. Also nice to see all the FAR and Parking calculations (and specifically showing my original parking math to be right ), and just generally explicitly explaining what parking is being requested.

Also, looking closely at the way parking is laid out, I think he figured out about what he could build by code, rounded up to the nearest whole parking level, and is requesting that. He's asking for 69 extra spaces, which isn't even the entirety of an underground parking level (each level is 160-162 spaces). He could stick the 72 spaces on level 2 for Miller Meester underground and build something on the 2nd level, and be right under the limit. Though I have to wonder if there's some way in that he's required to build those 72 parking spaces on the 2nd level as part of the land deal. Based on an article written in 2005, before the first Eclipse proposal, 21st Century Bank, which owns that building on the north of the block, also owns some of the land that this project would be built on.

[go4guy]

If I am looking at the plans right, are all the street fronting areas retail, entrance, or fitness center? And second level are all residential units facing the street? Renderings do look a lot better in this PDF. And almost looks like that is what it will look like on the cloudiest and gloomiest of days.

[nordeast homer]

I was curious about that too. If he offered those spots to Chestnut/Dolphin (the Miller Meester building) would that encourage them to enclose and build out their street level and possibly add some retail or a restaurant?

[FISHMANPET]

I have nothing better to do (that's not true, I have many important things to do but I did this instead) so I counted the parking, and this is what I got:

I split it out because I thought it was interesting that I got to exactly 72, but otherwise the takeaway is that there will actually be 9 fewer parking spaces with the Eclipse, assuming I cut the parking off in the right spot by the Miller Meester building.

[Archiapolis]

I have no strong opinion whether there are too many car stalls or not. I just demand the car levels be easily convertible into other uses when it is determined the car spaces have been over-built.

Can you point to an example of where parking has been successfully converted to housing/other uses? I'll wager that you can't find ONE example in this city and will find very few examples in the US but I'll suspend my disbelief until I see what you can offer.

http://m.theatlanticcities.com/design/2 ... ture/7583/

Ho boy...

1. Those are renderings, not a built project.

2. This is a "rehab", not new construction that assumes conversion.

See my lengthy post above regarding what makes conversion difficult. Tom Fisher is brilliant and I agree with him. Hell, I agree that "we" should be designing buildings that assume conversion. The first sentence says, "There is a growing belief among architects and designers..." conspicuously missing from that sentence is "developers." I've outlined all of the difficulties that come with the prospect of conversion, primary among those difficulties is getting a developer to pay for such a thing up front.

[seanrichardryan]

Has a 1970s vibe, like the Union building on Central & University. There appears to be no plan for the retail based upon the single entrance entrance doors outlined in the plans.

[Archiapolis]

I don't find the parking discussion annoying at all. Personally, I don't really care how much parking this thing has (up to a point) but I think it is very interesting to talk about the effects of parking on the neighborhood. Design isn't just about cladding and finishing materials. I think it's a good thing to start talking about how design impacts the surrounding community rather than taking the siloed view of how the building looks in and of itself. Keep talking about design in this way and eventually the processes will shift to encourage better building integration into the community.

This is also why I think the Lyndale/Franklin development is interesting. It's getting at the same questions.

I agree with most of this post - mark it down.

Now, as for you removing context from my post regarding "demanding better transit...and job centers outside the core", to that I say, "Well played; a good example of rhetorical aikido."
=^]

You probably know that I meant that we need better transit IN GENERAL, not specifically to serve reverse commutes from the city to those centers.

Oh no, even further off-topic...gah!

[Archiapolis]

As for the architecture/visualization...I don't know who thinks it's a good idea to show the gloomiest sky possible in the renders. If it is one thing that we are short on right now, it is gloomy skies! MOAR GLOOM!

The "hulking" comments is (I believe) a response to the depth of these buildings. Seeing the aerial images really reinforces that - wow, these units must be DEEP. Good luck getting daylight to the back of those units.

I still think that these two buildings are too close together, +/- 40'...that is packing the density on this one...is this city ready for residential buildings this tall that are this close together?

[Anondson]

...
Hell, I agree that "we" should be designing buildings that assume conversion.
...

Cool. We're in agreement as this pretty much rephrased what I said.

[TommyT]

I still think that these two buildings are too close together, +/- 40'...that is packing the density on this one...is this city ready for residential buildings this tall that are this close together?

First we want density... then it's too dense?

[Archiapolis]

...
Hell, I agree that "we" should be designing buildings that assume conversion.
...

Cool. We're in agreement as this pretty much rephrased what I said.

I need to work on my editing...it isn't a matter of what urbanists or architects want or believe is a good idea, it is a matter of what developers are willing to build. So "we" is basically "them."

[Silophant]

How much distance will be between the 26-story Nic on Fifth and the 30-story 4Marq? Doesn't seem like it'll be much more than 40 feet, though admittedly they don't directly face each other like Eclipse would.

[Archiapolis]

I still think that these two buildings are too close together, +/- 40'...that is packing the density on this one...is this city ready for residential buildings this tall that are this close together?

First we want density... then it's too dense?

I'm not against the density - join the buildings together and fill that space in!

I'm stating that the depth of units = hulking appearance and cr@p daylighting.

I'm also stating that a a 40' "courtyard" to the "north" side of a 13' story tower is a bad idea when an owner has control over both properties but I'm not the one trying to sell condo units in the "north" building with the "south" facing units that will be 40' across from a tower.

For reference, a 60' right of way is considered a "neighborhood connector" by the city of Mpls: 12' pedestrian zone (with planted boulevard), 7' parallel parking lane, 11' drive lane, 11' drive lane, 7' parallel parking lane, 12' pedestrian zone.