Nicollet Mall

[Silophant]

I go back and forth on whether it would be preferable to shift the future BRT routes (10/18) to 3rd or to Hennepin. Hennepin would have the advantage of already having BRT stations and thus seamless connections to the E Line, as well as still being within a block of Nicollet so it's not too much of a change for people's existing routines. 3rd Ave is more direct for routes crossing the 3rd Ave bridge, and the Hennepin Ave bus connections could also be made in Old St. Anthony (once we get to where every 4/6/E Line trip crosses the river). So, that's more efficient, for sure, but a bigger change to peoples existing routines.

[Tcmetro]

Why not just use Marquette and 2nd? The infrastructure is all there and underutilized and I doubt the express bus network is ever coming back like it once was.

[Bakken2016]

Why not just use Marquette and 2nd? The infrastructure is all there and underutilized and I doubt the express bus network is ever coming back like it once was.

Connections on 5th St and 7th St become tricky in my opinion, you want them to be smooth and seamless, and Marq/2 doesn't do that as well as Hennepin or 3rd.

[Silophant]

Hindsight is 20/20, but the Nicollet BRT stations on 7th and 8th really should have been between Nicollet and Marquette instead of between Nicollet and Hennepin.

[daveybabymsp]

I always read that BRT is way more flexible than LRT… if 2nd/marq makes the most sense but connections aren’t great let’s move the station!

[twincitizen]

If I could redo everything from scratch in a world with Nicollet as a bike/ped mall and no Marq2 infrastructure in place...

The ideal spacing for the N-S bus routes while still getting close enough to the major destinations would be Hennepin (bus lanes) and 2nd Ave S (two-way transitway). Nicollet Mall would be vehicle free, while Marquette would more or less be a normal two-way car-oriented street accommodating on-street parking, deliveries, parking garage entrances, etc. But unfortunately 2nd Ave S doesn't make for good connections to LRT, so I'm not sure what to do there. You could have buses switch over to 3rd Ave at 6th/7th Street to make the LRT connection at Govt Plaza Station and set them up to cross the river on 3rd. That works but doesn't make for very legible transit service.

Having bus routes concentrated on Hennepin and 3rd Ave S is fairly ideal route spacing for the northern half of downtown, down to say 5th or 6th St. But down at 11th/12th, Hennepin and 3rd Ave S are a half-mile apart! I just don't believe they'll make it that hard to catch a N-S bus from e.g. Orchestra Hall.

[Silophant]

Since everything (except the 11, I guess) would have to get back to Nicollet at the south end anyway, running down Hennepin would mean using 11th/12th to connect back to Nicollet, or just 12th if the Orange Line contraflow lane was extended to Hennepin (or all the way to Linden/394, if we're thinking big. That would keep all of Nicollet within two blocks of a stop, though it would get a little circuitious for the buses crossing the river on 3rd. Might be worth it, though, if we can get bus lanes on Hennepin. Honestly I've convinced myself that the 11 should do that regardless of what happens to the other buses.