urbanMSP

Parking. Whatever. I think it's short sighted but I don't care that much.

But why is the rest of it so lacking in ambition? Why not at least another 10 stories too?

That a skyway may be extending toward HCMC is really exciting.

No.

What do you mean no?

I know there are some Skyway haters here, but I really think this would be huge for livable and access downtown. Many mobility impaired and wheelchair bound can be independent because of the Skyway and being able to get to the hospital would be huge.

Confession: I am not put off by a skyway to the hospital.

But for this level of unambitious development to happen on the new proposed skyway link? Just no.

I, for one, think it would be very Christian of them to add affordable housing units on top of the parking.

This has told me a lot more than the internal news announced to us last Monday in which we were just told "a parking ramp" . We were told Thrivent signed a purchase agreement with the buyer who is developing the land to build a "parking ramp". Unless I was just reading into the vagueness.

It's a real shame they aren't building a 1500 ft. Renzo Piano designed LEED Platinum affordable housing only super-tall with street level retail for craft breweries and bike shops and no parking or skyway access on such an wonderful 1/2 block parcel.

Actual text I sent during the meeting: "Omg a skyway connection the forums are going to be a shitshow for months."

I agree that the parking does not need to be there. I am definitely much happier that at least the parking garage will be enclosed with residential units around the outside. At least the outside of the ugly parking garage won't be that miserable. But I do agree, this is absolutely a horrible design for that block. It definitely could be a lot worse though. I am glad to see that the apartment bubble has been burst yet. It means that still, more and more people are moving into the cities.


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Another thought: 55 dwelling units is nowhere near enough. Come on people get with the program.


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It's a real shame they aren't building a 1500 ft. Renzo Piano designed LEED Platinum affordable housing only super-tall with street level retail for craft breweries and bike shops and no parking or skyway access on such an wonderful 1/2 block parcel.

Just like there's a missing middle between a single family home and a six story apartment building, there's a world of middle between a surface parking lot and a supertall.

I'd be okay if it just covered the top two levels of the parking ramp.

The presenter did mention at the end that they were still running the numbers for if they wanted to go with four or five levels of stick-built apartments above the concrete ground level. I feel like they'll probably end up going with five, since that's penciled out for every single other recent stick-built project I can think of. I agree that screening all of the parking instead of just most of it is about the least they can do.

It's a real shame they aren't building a 1500 ft. Renzo Piano designed LEED Platinum affordable housing only super-tall with street level retail for craft breweries and bike shops and no parking or skyway access on such an wonderful 1/2 block parcel.

Just like there's a missing middle between a single family home and a six story apartment building, there's a world of middle between a surface parking lot and a supertall.

You're right of course. I just don't understand everyone's complaints about this project. There's zero chance they're going to build anything here without a skyway. In actuality doing so would severely hinder the development opportunities for the surface lot across the street.

This project looks like it checks a lot of boxes, including extending the heart of downtown further east, replacing some of the parking being lost from the office consolidation project, adds more downtown housing and it sounds like it might be a bit larger when finalized. A big win.

Let's step back and think about this *with* a skyway: This parcel could be a hub for the DTE skyway network, already connecting 701/Accenture, Government Center/USBankPlaza, and the ramp-jail-ramp connection to the new WF buildings. It seems like this would be a place to build a more prominent skyway connection to the street, and do something to improve that tube-clinging-to-the-back-of-Thrivent skyway that exists today. It's bright and sunny, but it's a block of nothingness. Getting rid of the bright windows, required by this development proposal to the east, would degrade the walkability of this skyway link even further.

No, try again.

That should be the city's response to this turd of a proposal. If they are going to insist on the 600 park spots they city should insist that apartments cover the entire exterior at a minimum if not higher and a decent amount should be Section 8/low income/workforce housing. Along with that the city should also require the sale and/or development of their remaining blocks otherwise they will face large property tax increases, being sure to not encourage another 222 Hennepin. Toss in a requirement to provide employees bus passes it could end up being a win for the city. There is a way to make this work for everyone if everyone comes to the table.

No, try again.

That should be the city's response to this turd of a proposal. If they are going to insist on the 600 park spots they city should insist that apartments cover the entire exterior at a minimum if not higher and a decent amount should be Section 8/low income/workforce housing. Along with that the city should also require the sale and/or development of their remaining blocks otherwise they will face large property tax increases, being sure to not encourage another 222 Hennepin. Toss in a requirement to provide employees bus passes it could end up being a win for the city. There is a way to make this work for everyone if everyone comes to the table.

I'm guessing most, if not all, of these demands are not legal.

No, try again.

That should be the city's response to this turd of a proposal. If they are going to insist on the 600 park spots they city should insist that apartments cover the entire exterior at a minimum if not higher and a decent amount should be Section 8/low income/workforce housing. Along with that the city should also require the sale and/or development of their remaining blocks otherwise they will face large property tax increases, being sure to not encourage another 222 Hennepin. Toss in a requirement to provide employees bus passes it could end up being a win for the city. There is a way to make this work for everyone if everyone comes to the table.

Why stop there? Why not make Thrivent tear down their skyway, make employees bike to work, and require tenants of the new building mill around outside for a minimum of 3 hours a day to provide active street life for urbanists to enjoy when they pass.

Looks like The Suburbanist created a streets.mn forum account!

In all seriousness, I'm not wild about this proposal but I don't think it's as much junk as others seem to. The number of units is frustratingly low, but parking wrapped with *something* is a good start, and I really get the impression this is setting themselves up for a quality development on the full block across the street. It's possible the office tower market isn't strong enough for something tall here and/or Thrivent doesn't want a residential tower an arm's length from its employees' windows with quite stunning views of a cool new park and stadium. I'm with Silophant that the trade for this vs a bunch of good stuff on the full block is a pretty good situation.

To be fair, the Thrivent tower's east face is *mostly a blank wall* because it was *designed for a tower to snug up against it.* https://goo.gl/maps/urLM2krPBG42

This project looks like it checks a lot of boxes, including extending the heart of downtown further east, replacing some of the parking being lost from the office consolidation project, adds more downtown housing and it sounds like it might be a bit larger when finalized. A big win.

This is a lot in the heart of our downtown "financial district." They're proposing that it be used for a parking structure and 55 units of housing. That's not a win. Not in this location.