Amtrak: Empire Builder and Borealis (TCMC)

[commissioner]

I can see LaCresent-Minnesota City being re-double tracked, and probably a third main from St Paul Yard and up the hill due to CP tying up one main for crew changes and the climb up the hill. Not sure about the rest of the BNSF-CP segment or the rest of the river sub for that matter (cue the NIMBYS going crazy over this)

[DanPatchToget]

With the infrastructure bill passed can we expect a second train to Chicago in the near future?

[Silophant]

The second train was fully funded with the state budget deal this summer - I don't know if throwing more money at it can really accelerate it at this point. I'd like to think that some of the Amtrak money could go to the Chicago-Milwaukee-Madison-Eau Claire-St. Paul route they pitched in August, though.

[DanPatchToget]

Fully funded for construction or fully funded for studying? It's hard to keep track of funding for a project and if it's just for studies or for moving dirt.

[Anondson]

Fully funded for the American consultant class to get their first-come first-served helping?

[Silophant]

Fully funded for construction.

[Korh]

>2024
I think that might be a bit optimistic.
Might expect it to be closer to 2-3 years from when they actually start construction.

[mattaudio]

What construction is there? Secure an additional trainset (should be easy right now as Amtrak Midwest has ramped up fleet renewal) and let 'er rip.

[DanPatchToget]

Additional sidings and/or extensions of existing sidings. Possibly also station improvements like ADA compliance but I'm not sure about that one.

[Silophant]

Yeah, my understanding is that the construction is rebuilding some junctions, adding a few sidings, and putting better platforms at Winona and La Crosse stations. So not nothing, but also not tunneling through a swamp.

[Korh]

Probably not that much but was also considering stuff like testing and final approval.
I'm trying to remember past rail projects, how much of a delay was there between construction finishing and the official start of service with the two lrt lines and the Northstar?

[alexschief]

Are there obvious slowdown points where future track investments or new alignments could meaningfully increase speeds?

[Didier]

It's hard to keep track of everything, so maybe (hopefully) I'm wrong, but this infrastructure bill and Build Back Better look like they're shaping up to be Obamacare 2.0, where none of the good stuff takes effect until long after Democrats are voted out of office.

[DanPatchToget]

What about when Obama dedicated tons of funding to "high speed rail" but then states that turned red rejected the funding (I'm looking at you Wisconsin), and the small number of projects that did end up with funding weren't the most significant improvements. All I can think of are improving speeds on the Lincoln Service between Chicago and St. Louis, and California's troubled high speed rail that won't even reach Los Angeles or San Francisco in the first phase.

Regarding future improvements along the Empire Builder route, within Minnesota the areas that come to mind are the river crossing in La Crosse (I believe the current speed there is 10 mph), the river crossing in Hastings, St. Croix Tower (just north of Hastings where the BNSF and CP mainlines meet), and the large junction just east of SPUD (MnDOT did a study some years ago and recommended a flyover bridge at that location so passenger trains going to/from SPUD wouldn't have to wait in that bottleneck).

[StandishGuy]

This Railway Age commentary is quite pessimistic about improved passenger service in the Midwest following passage of the Infrastructure Bill. It includes a nugget about the proposed schedule for the second train to Chicago, which seems like new info. The author is quite critical that the 2nd train will run just 3 hours after the Empire Builder. https://www.railwayage.com/news/a-hard- ... long-shot/

[StandishGuy]

The Star Tribune is reporting that CP and KCS have agreed to host a second passenger train to Chicago if their planned merger receives Federal approval. It also could mean a faster timeline than the anticipated 2024 launch. Now that it's 2022, however, 2024 doesn't sound that far away.

https://www.startribune.com/rail-agreem ... 600133320/

[Tiller]

I feel like more than 2 future roundtrips should be agreed to for such a big merger approval (even if they all aren't shovel-ready yet). We should get all of the Hiawatha frequencies extended to Saint Paul (and at some point Minneapolis/Saint Cloud).

[NickP]

^^^^ this!

[Korh]

The Star Tribune is reporting that CP and KCS have agreed to host a second passenger train to Chicago if their planned merger receives Federal approval. It also could mean a faster timeline than the anticipated 2024 launch. Now that it's 2022, however, 2024 doesn't sound that far away.

https://www.startribune.com/rail-agreem ... 600133320/

Let's hope this doesn't end up like another SPSF

[Silophant]

I feel like more than 2 future roundtrips should be agreed to for such a big merger approval (even if they all aren't shovel-ready yet). We should get all of the Hiawatha frequencies extended to Saint Paul (and at some point Minneapolis/Saint Cloud).

Yeah, getting agreement for the four round-trips (including one or two via Eau Claire instead of La Crosse) that Amtrak had pitched in their plan last summer would be good.