Root District - Farmers Market / Royalston Station

[Silophant]

According to this BIHZ committee item, the modular housing factory is now slated for 1400 Washington Ave N. Seems like a better bet - still pretty central and transit accessible, but isn't a truck-heavy industrial use directly adjacent to an LRT station.

On a similar note, Modist Brewing bought 301 Royalston a couple months ago. On the one hand, good for them, it's good to see a local business be successful, but on the other hand, man, a distribution center driveway isn't quite what I'd have hoped to have directly facing Royalston Station. Maybe they'll do occasional events in the parking lot like Fulton does in NE.

[Bakken2016]

I would really like to see some housing proposed for this area, the rest of the North Loop is running out surface parking lots to redevelop. Along with would love to see more along 5th St between 6th Ave and 10th Ave.

[Anondson]

T-Wolves potential owners eying site adjacent to the Farmers Market.

https://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/ ... -lore.html

[Bakken2016]

T-Wolves potential owners eying site adjacent to the Farmers Market.

https://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/ ... -lore.html

It could finally spark the redevelopment of that area, though I'm against the city spending a dime to fund it. Also, for transit that means the Timberwolves would only be off the Green Line, so Blue Line riders would have to transfer at Target Field or walk.

[twincitizen]

I think I could come around to support this in concept (not a specific subsidy, but the idea of a new area). The prerequisites for the City to even consider allowing/supporting an arena here are a complete reconstruction of the Farmers' Market, including year-round indoor market/event space, and completely rebuild the street grid between Royalston Station and the Farmers' Market, "Bring Back 6th", etc. Just plopping down an arena without completely re-visioning this area from scratch would be a failure that we cannot sit idly by and allow to happen.

While I'm not surprised the Timberwolves are looking at this area for a new arena (because where else could it possibly go?), I was hoping the timeline would be stretched out long enough so that the arena could be built on the HERC site, meaning late 2030s at the soonest. If ownership is eyeing a site now, I'd guess they hope to have the new arena open by 2030.

I'm also going to make a prediction: Hennepin County will be the level of government that the team targets for a subsidy. The ownership has to be politically astute enough to know that the votes for a stadium subsidy are simply not there on the City Council. At the state, Walz seems like the type that would be supportive but I'm not sure about the legislature, which already has St. Paul in line asking for $200-300 million to update the Xcel arena. So that leaves Hennepin County and its existing sales tax for Target Field, which is closer than ever to being paid off. This is from 2017:

Debt on Target Field, home of the Minnesota Twins, could be paid off a decade early thanks to a robust economy generating higher-than-anticipated sales-tax receipts, lower interest rates and refinancing of the original bonds used to back the project.

Hennepin County originally floated $350 million in bonding, backed by a countywide 0.15 percent sales tax, for the $555 million ballpark, with part of the proceeds also used to fund county libraries and youth sports facilities. (Annually, the Hennepin County sales tax generates $36 million; $29 million is used to pay down ballpark debt, with the rest going to the county, a ballpark capital fund and youth activities.) Three sets of bonds made up the $350 million in bonding. One set, priced at $75 million, has already been paid off — and 21 years early, to boot. The rest of the debt could be paid off as soon as 2027 — a decade earlier than anticipated.

Continuing the sales tax for another stadium will require sign-off by the Legislature and Hennepin County board, but continuing an existing tax is kinda seen as "free money" and is a far smaller political mountain to climb than passing a new tax. Even with funds from continuing the .15% tax another 30 years, the owners are going to have to chip in the majority of the costs. I doubt you can build a new arena for less than $1 billion today.

[Zkools20]

On the topic of said arena being built in that location, could metro transit just have the blue line trains go there and stop at the new arena when events are happening at the arena? During the spring summer and fall it’s not that bad of a walk I would assume but during winter that’s a different story

[MNdible]

Continuing the sales tax for another stadium will require sign-off by the Legislature and Hennepin County board, but continuing an existing tax is kinda seen as "free money" and is a far smaller political mountain to climb than passing a new tax.

Hennepin County has already made plans to harness these tax funds to pay for the necessary improvements to HCMC. A legislative request to enable this made quite a bit of headway during the recent session.

[Anondson]

On the topic of said arena being built in that location, could metro transit just have the blue line trains go there and stop at the new arena when events are happening at the arena? During the spring summer and fall it’s not that bad of a walk I would assume but during winter that’s a different story

Such as just extend the Blue Line train destination to the Royalston Station around the curve?

Maybe at least during future-arena events?

How long out is the expected Blue Line extension set to open? Would the future-arena be open before that extension is ready?

[HuskyGrad]

On the topic of said arena being built in that location, could metro transit just have the blue line trains go there and stop at the new arena when events are happening at the arena? During the spring summer and fall it’s not that bad of a walk I would assume but during winter that’s a different story

Such as just extend the Blue Line train destination to the Royalston Station around the curve?

Maybe at least during future-arena events?

How long out is the expected Blue Line extension set to open? Would the future-arena be open before that extension is ready?

I’ve thought it might work to create an overlay line that connects Hopkins to MSP/MOA with minimal changes to infrastructure.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[twincitizen]

One more thought: I would guess downtown bars and restaurants would oppose the hell out of this. They are just getting back on their feet and would stand to lose Target Center business too?

The west loop / farmers market would have made a fine site for a football/soccer stadium hosting a few dozen events a year. For a multipurpose arena hosting 150-200(?) events a year, it doesn't seem like a good fit and would pull customers away from Nicollet and Warehouse District businesses.

[seanrichardryan]

In theory, the city still would own Target Center and it would still host non NBA events as well.

[alexschief]

I still think my idea is the best solution for a new Wolves arena, but "team investors build an arena and accompanying development in the Root District / Royalston Station area" is probably my second preference.

[BikesOnFilm]

On the topic of said arena being built in that location, could metro transit just have the blue line trains go there and stop at the new arena when events are happening at the arena? During the spring summer and fall it’s not that bad of a walk I would assume but during winter that’s a different story

Such as just extend the Blue Line train destination to the Royalston Station around the curve?

Maybe at least during future-arena events?

How long out is the expected Blue Line extension set to open? Would the future-arena be open before that extension is ready?

I’ve thought it might work to create an overlay line that connects Hopkins to MSP/MOA with minimal changes to infrastructure.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I feel like the far more likely solution is for Blue Line passengers to disembark at Target Field Station, walk along the wide pedestrian walkway along the Northside of the stadium, and cross Seventh at Fifth Ave. Undoubtedly there would be game day traffic management that would facilitate this, but that seems far more likely to me than a temporary reroute of the Blue Line.

[MNdible]

You're also going to want to get a strong pedestrian connection to at least the A Ramp, so there's going to have to be some major beefed up pedestrian infrastructure built.

[BigIdeasGuy]

If they were going to build at the Root District it would almost certainly be part of a bigger redevelopment/entertainment district, that is absolutely the trend with new sports venues. Now how this connects logically and effectively to Target Field/Target Center, 7th seems like an impossible lift and the NW side of Target Field along side the HERC ain't much better, unless the HERC goes.

To me the best location is where Target Center sits now, that probably means 2 years at the X during the teardown/rebuild process but I can't come up with a location where the public and team can both win more.

[uptownbro]

I think it should be where target center currently is. You will have rail access to 3 lines. There are some spots for a deer district style redevelopment. This would also allow for the idea of cap on 394 between target field and target center to create a really cool plaza. Maybe add in removing all or part the A ramp or all of the B ramp and really we have a lot of space

[Tom H.]

I still think my idea is the best solution for a new Wolves arena, but "team investors build an arena and accompanying development in the Root District / Royalston Station area" is probably my second preference.

Wherever a new arena might be built, I love the idea of leveraging the development with some combination of capping 394, removing the last few blocks of 394, and removing the 94 viaduct. There's the equivalent of something like 5-6 city blocks worth of *very valuable* developable land tied up in that freeway infrastructure.

[twincitizen]

Can a state of the art NBA arena be built on the Target Center site? I believe the main criticism of Target Center is that it's the only NBA arena with more seats in the upper bowl than lower, along with the lack of suites and other modern amenities. Even with a slightly reduced seating capacity, can it actually fit without closing an adjacent street?

1st Avenue and 7th St can't be closed, the latter is already curved around Target Center to maximum extent. 6th Street could be closed to cars as long as pedestrians can still walk through to Target Field, but it's already so close to Butler Center at that you might as well do something interesting like fully integrate a new arena with Butler Center and relocate some of the arena functions into Butler. Current Butler tenants would fill other office space nearby, so that's sort of a bonus.

2nd Ave N could easily be cantilevered over as much as they want, but at street level the arena is already at max footprint. It's possible you could narrow and put a lid over 2nd Ave, moving all pedestrian activity up to the A-B Ramp skyway level, which could be rebuilt/integrated into a seamless plaza reaching across 394 to Target Field's plaza. I don't love a full closure of 2nd Ave N because the grid is already so jacked up around here, but it would allow them to rotate the arena 90 degrees and have all the space they need by completely covering 394 up to Target Field Plaza. That might be the only way to stay on this site.

I assume the City of Minneapolis would prefer it to be on the Target Center site and will oppose any public subsidy for an arena that would compete with City-owned Target Center for concert bookings. So if the team is looking at other sites, there's probably a good reason and that might be that the Target Center site is too small.

[MNdible]

YES. The Target Center site is absolutely too small. It was too small for the Target Center, and arena footprints have absolutely grown since then, not to mention the requirements for security perimeters. Unless you have a plan for eliminating streets and buildings in the area, please stop suggesting that the Target Center (or any similar single block site) as a feasible solution.

[SurlyLHT]

This is what LA is getting for the Clippers. We can't expect anything to this scale, but it gives you an idea of the direction of NBA stadiums.

https://ftw.usatoday.com/lists/clippers ... -explainer