Housing Market/Economics - General Topics

[mister.shoes]

Lots to unpack in here.

There is no such thing as a city that has run out of room

[FISHMANPET]

My favorite bit right here:

By this logic, the latest person to move to San Francisco, or Portland, or even Detroit is always, miraculously, the last one to squeeze in before the gates must slam shut.

Says McCarthy: “This is the American mantra: I’m here, all development can stop.”

[mplsjaromir]

^^^This.

It is so absurd that people think Minneapolis is filling up and we need to make sure we do not allow too much more construction because land is now too scarce. Those ideas come from those without perspective.

[MNdible]

Meanwhile.

[mplsjaromir]

On the other hand

[FISHMANPET]

The Minneapolis Trends Report came out today, and I decided to actually look at it. And I learned that building permits include the value of the work and materials (in fact the fee is based off that number). So you can look at a property in the Property Info site and click on Inspection permits, and find the year of construction, and there should be permits there that include the value.

Looking at 2320 Colfax for example: (actual address of the project is 2316 Colfax)
http://apps.ci.minneapolis.mn.us/PIApp/ ... 2924110098
So you can see the wrecking permits (with no value), Site Alterations valued ath $335,000, looks to be for footings. A plumbing permit, no value attached but based on the fee probably around $700,000, that looks to be for running gas. A mechanical permit valued at $220,000, also for gas. And finally, the "New Building" valued at $4,535,000. There's a little wiggle there specifically and in general. For example, you need a BTMA permit for temporary heat. And there's a footings inspection dated the same date as the "Site Alterations" Footing final inspection. Also the city lists the cost of the project in their trends report as $4,535,000, not the sum of all the values. So maybe the New Building permit covers the total value of everything, and then there's additional permits/fees for other things on top, even though that "value" is already included in the New Building permit. Someone with more info on the building permit process would have to chime in here.

[RailBaronYarr]

Relevant to the now dormant discussion of poor doors http://www.rooflines.org/4267/in_defens ... _poor_door

[Nathan]

This thread moves to fast for me sometimes, so if this has been posted, sorry.

http://www.dezeen.com/2015/10/21/narchi ... adapt-nyc/

[mplsjaromir]

This thread moves to fast for me sometimes, so if this has been posted, sorry.

http://www.dezeen.com/2015/10/21/narchi ... adapt-nyc/

I hate the thinking behind micro apartments, mostly because I reject the idea that we are anywhere near the limit for gross square feet of housing. They could have built a taller building and had normal sized apartments. I hope this terrible idea doesn't catch.

[mattaudio]

And who's going to pay the difference in cost?

[FISHMANPET]

I don't think micro units are any kind of grand solution to the issue of housing affordability, but some people just don't need that much space and so something like that is fine for them.

But Matt is right (or his implication is right). You couldn't just build taller and have bigger apartments and then magically still have the same rents.

[mplsjaromir]

Zoning drives up the cost of land and cost per unit. Potentially looser regulations can lower per unit cost if not the cost of land. If a reasonable zoning regime was in place in New York, you wouldn't need these gimmicks. I agree that all things being equal a smaller apartment would cost less, but that seems to be obvious.

[Nathan]

I think it's the innovation in construction and living style that's important. You probably couldn't go taller for the same height, but you need to have so many units to keep it in the black... So... they're smaller, but assembled from pre fab blocks. If we get better at this technology it can be spread to different kinds of units.

[Anondson]

Do hotels count as "housing"? Because you may have noticed we're in something of a hotel boom. Hotel, hotel, hotel. Not just downtown either.

Recent data says hotels are at a historic occupancy rate. And rising revenue too. (I posted this over on the Minnetonka - General thread first)

http://www.calculatedriskblog.com/2015/ ... t.html?m=1

I guess the financial wizards see hotel building as a better bet.

[seanrichardryan]

'An obstacle in the Twin Cities housing market: prospective sellers who are `effectively' underwater
Many homeowners don't have enough to cover cost of moving. '

http://www.startribune.com/an-obstacle- ... 341382211/

When the suburbs are bust...

[Anondson]

Blaming the home builders as if the cities and the neighbors aren't as much blameworthy at preventing housing for first time buyers. They should not be off the hook.

[Anondson]

Dorms for grownups?

http://www.citylab.com/housing/2015/11/ ... =SFTwitter

[seanrichardryan]

I love my adult dorm. Dinner at my place!

[seanrichardryan]

From Forbes, exurbs are booming!

http://www.forbes.com/sites/joelkotkin/ ... e-booming/

If you've ever spent anytime in the sunbelt...

[Anondson]

Cities grappling with owners renting their single family home out. Seems some cities feel it's an epidemic that harms neighborhoods.

http://www.startribune.com/single-famil ... 342596422/

Soooooo much to unpack from this.