Bloomington - General Topics

[BikesOnFilm]

Ahh, my favorite. A Strib article claiming how better some part of the metro is doing than Minneapolis, with their supporting interviews being mostly with people who financially benefit from people believing that narrative.

All over a vacancy rate that shifted from 20.4% to 20.1%.

Forgive me for not making sweeping conclusions about how this changes everything and we need to start immediately making plans to build five blocks worth of free parking garages in downtown over a .3% drop in commercial vacancy in Bloomington.

[Nick]

Is there something that could happen that would make you not say that?

[BikesOnFilm]

Plenty of things. But we continue to live in the world where the Strib writes "Great Times In The Suburbs, says Suburban Leasing Agent and/or Suburban Developer" every six months, so that's what I get to respond to.

It's not like the commercial situation in Minneapolis is good. The problem is that to me, it seems like the reporter came with the framing for this story first, and then didn't put it on the shelf when the "great success" of the 494 corridor was a .3% improvement.

It seems more like the kind of statistic you'd include as part of a metro wide exploration of commercial vacancy rates, not something to go get background interviews for and talk up what a great turnaround it is.

[wingedmolotov]

"The Knox" apartments are well underway at the SW corner of Knox and American, right next to the Orange Line stop. 99 units, developed by StuartCo which also did the nearby District and Genesee. Previously a vacant lot but before that an bank and then an auto dealership. The frame is all up and some of the exterior is on, it looks like it's going to be an extension of the District Apartments, same style and all. https://imgur.com/a/4VERNRk

Groundbreaking has also started on Schaefer Richardson's 700 American Boulevard W (128 senior units at 60% and 50% area median income. It's been empty for over a decade now and there was a Hy-Vee proposal that fell through. There will be retail on the bottom floor. This is all pretty good, but I question the appeal of having a view of the REI parking lot. https://imgur.com/a/X7bmknr

[twincitizen]

Both of these projects are somewhat underwhelming.

The Knox apartments doesn't make full use of its site. There appears to be a preference to build out a residential street wall along 80th 1/2 Street (similar to the District Apts across the street), even if it means the building is set back far from the corner of Knox & American...it's just going to be undeveloped grass facing the BRT station. I can understand not putting retail in this project as there's plenty of retail already in the Genesee development (not to mention Southtown). If the market demands more retail space, it could go in future mixed use buildings between Newton and Morgan Avenues (current sites of Sonic & Wendys). Hopefully by the time those blocks turn over to redevelopment, the city will have reduced parking requirements enough to allow for greater density without needing to build two floors of underground parking.

The 700 American project is probably fine, I hope the building at least looks decent. It was originally supposed to be all ages rental with an additional floor (more units) and contain more retail space (closer to 5,000 square feet instead of the 1,500). REI was unwilling to lease any of their enormously overbuilt surface parking lot to this development (they would not even give up ten spaces), which made it really hard for the developer to not only meet Bloomington's high parking requirements, but even made it tough to hit the developer's preferred parking ratio. So they had to switch to senior housing to reduce the amount of parking spaces required, and also cut the retail space down to the bone. 1,500 square feet is guaranteed to be just a single retail space like a coffee shop or cell phone store, which is extraordinarily underwhelming for what this site could actually support in terms of retail. Frankly, this mostly residential development (requiring TIF!) just feels out of place here. A single story retail development of 8,000-10,000 square feet would have added much more activity to the area than a senior housing building with basically no retail. A single building of senior housing does nothing to make this area more urban or walkable on the whole...it's completely isolated surrounded by a very noisy, high-traffic intersection. In a perfect world, REI would have sold or leased a small percentage of their surplus parking to allow for a larger project here with retail taking up the entire first floor.

[Wezle]

The transformation of Lyndale Ave S as it passes from Richfield into Bloomington is astonishing. 4 blocks north of the Lyndale and American intersection at Lyndale and W 75th St, Lyndale is 3 lanes total with 1 in each direction and a center turn lane. By the time you get to Lyndale and American, you have 8 lanes total including 2 left turn lanes and a slip lane in both directions. I don't see how that could ever become an urban, walkable area.

Glad to see more housing there but oof, Bloomington sure loves their stroads.

That's not even the worst that Bloomington has. At 24th Ave S and American, 24th Ave S is a whopping 12 lanes across. There's a lot standing in the way of the South Loop ever being a urban, walkable area. Light rail or not.

[MNdible]

Related only in that I noticed this looking at google maps of the area, the apartment building on the NW corner of Newton and 81st is a skinny guy. Looks like a single loaded corridor -- essentially half of a standard apartment building. Terribly inefficient! I'd be curious to know why they did this.

[twincitizen]

I think that building is the "Townhomes" of Genesee Apartments & Townhomes. Except instead of a more typical rowhome setup where each unit is 2 or 3 floors over its own private garage, its just a skinny apartment building. Floor plans indicate the townhome units are two floors each. So they must be stacked on top of each other, necessitating a lobby and corridors. That does seem inefficient.

Speaking of unusual construction types in this area, the District Apartments to the east are less dense than what you'd expect given the goals for this area. This two building complex has these odd little 2-story sections breaking up the 4-story sections - I can't recall seeing that building arrangement elsewhere. It would seem more cost-effective to have built one denser building on half of the site, reserving the other half for a future phase. But I know there are several other factors at play here driving lower density housing, such as high parking requirements, possibly TIF-related deadlines to complete the overall project that developer StuartCo agreed to, and limited sanitary sewer capacity for additional residential. On that last point, the City has known about the limited sewer capacity in the Penn-American area for years and is moving forward with a project to add capacity to allow the future phases of Southtown development to possibly include residential, office, hotel (basically anything that requires more water & sewer than big box retail, which uses very little).

[angrysuburbanite]

This area of Bloomington is one of the few places in the Twin Cities I legitimately do not like going to. Not to sound like an angry suburbanite (hehe), but the traffic on and along 494, all of the stroads, concrete, decaying and/or ugly commercial, office, and industrial buildings... I agree with Wezle, it would take a whole lot to make this area more of a place to enjoy existing in.

[Mdcastle]

So, if people want more retail vitality than a cell phone store on 700 American, what do people think of the idea of the city having let Hy-Vee build like they wanted to. Seems like convenience stores always have a lot of traffic, foot traffic as well as car traffic.

I thought people wouldn't want to live in apartments with a view of the Southdale parking lot, but was proven wrong so I guess views of the REI parking lot won't be much different.

As for I-494,, yes the traffic on it sucks and I try to avoid it at rush hour, but my observation is American Blvd still moves decently.

[wingedmolotov]

American and Lyndale are not good places to walk, yet 66th and Lyndale in Richfield carry a comparable amount of traffic and are much better places to be. That's a big reason why a lot of the dense development around that intersection happened, and Bloomington's streets need to be cut down to size as well if a walkable environment is desired. I think the city is becoming more aware of this fact and things are generally moving in the right direction, in my opinion.

[Mdcastle]

I've had extensive conversations with the city council and engineering staff over the years. My impressions:

Council is officially non-partisan but unofficially fairly liberal, they're still being restrained somewhat by the grumpy old people contingent, the best example of this is how they managed to scuttle the initial plans for a community center. They were out in force to protest the Portland restriping, but ultimately that's Hennepin County property who just ignored them. Also City council is restrained by the precedent they set approving the Southtown Wendy's rebuild where basically owners of non-conforming sites are allowed to voluntarily "destroy" their own property down to the dirt and rebuild it brand new as a non-conforming use.

Engineering staff has gone from totally car-focused to about half and half so on recent projects we're getting ambivalent outcomes like the 106th street rebuild, where the 4-lane death road configuration was maintained but a multi-use path was added, a free right turn was added and one rebuilt but two removed. Like how Old Cedar to the river was rebuilt with a fully protected off-road path but Lyndale to the river was rebuilt with nothing but paint as "protection" for bicyclists and pedestrians.

[wingedmolotov]

I agree that Bloomington is moving away from being so car-centric, especially with the updated active transportation and traffic calming plans. Small improvements here and there are also being snuck in with PMP. What baffles me is that the portion of 86th that was recently repaved still isn't marked as a bike lane, despite being called the "Mid City Bikeway" and having no parking and bicycle route signage. One thing to watch is the Nicollet reconstruction in 2027 that's on the CIP and ATAP, where Bloomington could get its first protected bike lane. It's also nice that access to 494 is being removed, because right now your options are to bike on a four-lane death road with cars turning in and out, or a four-foot curbtight sidewalk.

[DanPatchToget]

Unless plans change, it's too bad Normandale Boulevard will remain a 4-lane death road between Old Shakopee and 94th Street, and while there are plans to finally repave the crumbling sidewalks on either side of the road on that section, only the west side of the road will have a 10-foot wide trail while the east side will just have a 6-foot wide sidewalk.

https://letstalk.bloomingtonmn.gov/normandale-blvd-pmp

[wingedmolotov]

Bloomington is conducting a study on aBRT on American Boulevard. The city is trying to determine what improvements need to be made to support BRT here after it wasn't included in Network Next.

https://d3n9y02raazwpg.cloudfront.net/b ... 035739.pdf (Item 5.3)

[thespeedmccool]

Bloomington is conducting a study on aBRT on American Boulevard. The city is trying to determine what improvements need to be made to support BRT here after it wasn't included in Network Next.

https://d3n9y02raazwpg.cloudfront.net/b ... 035739.pdf (Item 5.3)

The answer, which they won't like, is density, little parking, and pedestrian-oriented environments.

Studies have such a stranglehold on government. Why is a study needed to tell them what anyone with a passing knowledge of transportation and development knows?

[BikesOnFilm]

Why is a study needed to tell them what anyone with a passing knowledge of transportation and development knows?

I am also frustrated with the public sector obsession with consultants, but I think at the bare minimum having some kind of study is necessary to avoid assertions of "Everybody knows (insert belief the speaker has that they've projected onto everyone else) so we should just do it."

Like it's patently obvious to us why Metro Transit isn't ready to build a BRT on American Boulevard, but like we saw with the Hennepin Ave reconstruction, to some people, it's patently obvious to others that removing the street parking on Hennepin south of Lake absolutely, without question, 100% killed all the retail at that node. At least with a study, there's some level of research to back up reality.

[thespeedmccool]

Why is a study needed to tell them what anyone with a passing knowledge of transportation and development knows?

I am also frustrated with the public sector obsession with consultants, but I think at the bare minimum having some kind of study is necessary to avoid assertions of "Everybody knows (insert belief the speaker has that they've projected onto everyone else) so we should just do it."

Like it's patently obvious to us why Metro Transit isn't ready to build a BRT on American Boulevard, but like we saw with the Hennepin Ave reconstruction, to some people, it's patently obvious to others that removing the street parking on Hennepin south of Lake absolutely, without question, 100% killed all the retail at that node. At least with a study, there's some level of research to back up reality.

This is a good point, but city councilors never, even with their 300-page $500k study in hand, just tell constituents to read the report and stop worrying. I don't think the endless studies satisfy anyone. They don't assuage concerns and don't usually tell us anything we didn't know.

Study or not, I don't think Bloomington is going to change anything about the American corridor that matters. The city council won't heed the report because "the community" will rise up in opposition. (Probably. I'd be happy to be proven wrong.)

[BikesOnFilm]

I guess I'm not all that concerned about people coming to the defense of car dealerships and big box retail and the study being for nothing. And considering this study is being done at the same time as a Missing Middle study, I expect the solutions to the American Boulevard BRT issue are going to look similar to efforts that have already taken place in Minneapolis, St. Paul, and Richfield - namely a modernized form based zoning code.

People will be more focused on freaking out over the idea of duplexes next door.

[wingedmolotov]

Maybe I'm being too optimistic here, but I'm hopeful that the study provides the city with leverage to institute these changes and continue redevelopment in its special districts. A lot of great development has happened in the 10+ years since the last study and I feel like something could happen here.

Edit: Reading more about it, the study says that though it's mostly about BRT, they will also study bike/ped initiatives on this key corridor. I also found something about a corridor study and rezonings for this area in the Planning Commission workplan for 2026+.