Bloomington - General Topics

[Mdcastle]

Yeah, I didn't think of the scenario of crossing if four times,

Althouth hHow I've seen it work on France and Normandale and other streets is that the sidewalk on the opposite side of the street is functionally also a MUP for short trips (like the 4 foot sidewalks by Kennedy are now) . So you'd have your choice as to if you wanted to cross the street four times for the smoother, wider pavement on longer trips, or use the 6 foot sidewalk to just go a couple of blocks on shorter trips.

But whatever. In either case at least there will at least be a new buffer of greenery between bicyclists (and pedestrians) and cars more like 66th in Richfield as opposed to having bicyclists mere inches away from cars like Washington Ave.

[Mdcastle]

American Boulevard proposed layout and guide plan



Between this and the "Lyndale Avenue retrofit", Bloomington seems determined to eliminate freestanding commercial retail in favor of cute 5 over 1s or something of that sort. While they don't necessarily have to go where they are, we need them uses that are now found on Lyndale or American someplace in East Bloomington since I don't want to have to drive all the way to Burnsville to go to a McDonald's drive-thru or Home Depot. Most big box retail wound up along 494 because that's the only place it was allowed by zoning, notably the city refused to allow a Target to open at Normaldale and OSR.

[daveybabymsp]

American Boulevard proposed layout and guide plan



Between this and the "Lyndale Avenue retrofit", Bloomington seems determined to eliminate freestanding commercial retail in favor of cute 5 over 1s or something of that sort. While they don't necessarily have to go where they are, we need them uses that are now found on Lyndale or American someplace in East Bloomington since I don't want to have to drive all the way to Burnsville to go to a McDonald's drive-thru or Home Depot. Most big box retail wound up along 494 because that's the only place it was allowed by zoning, notably the city refused to allow a Target to open at Normaldale and OSR.

Do you not support that road layout? Looks like a massive improvement, I’m surprised they are being that ambitious

[Mdcastle]

If a traffic study (that would be done before any permanent changes) shows that it would work I could support it- they pointed out how the limits of what two lanes can handle keeps getting pushed up and pointed out Lyndale in Minneapoils specifically.

[Tiller]

It looks like Bloomington really wants that American Blvd aBRT/BRT back on the table

What are the odds that TOD land use actually gets updated into the zoning code?

[wingedmolotov]

It looks like Bloomington really wants that American Blvd aBRT/BRT back on the table

What are the odds that TOD land use actually gets updated into the zoning code?

Imo Bloomington has been doing well making its code progressive through a series of incremental projects, so probably pretty good.


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[Mdcastle]

Might get rezoned but I don't think we're going I'm going to have to worry about having to drive to Burnsville to get to a Walmart or Home Depot any time soon. Bloomington keeps coming up with these extremely ambitious projects that either go nowhere or stall and die before completion, presumably because the market can't actually support them.

We'll give the 98th Street Area and Lyndale Avenue Retrofit a pass since they're so new and note that France and Normandale we actually came close to getting what was planned even if the northeast corner got vastly scaled down, but call out Penn-American, the Mall of America with respect to phase II, the South Loop in general and the airport parking lots specifically, the Neighborhood Commercial Study, the String of Pearls, Even the original early 1980s Oxboro Redevelopment to replace the Sunde Blacksmith Shop and a bunch of dumpy buildings with strip malls stalled.

[wingedmolotov]

Yeah, the South Loop has been pretty disappointing recently. I still think the southern half of Penn-American is doing well for itself though. Anyway, there has been a recent study on the commercial nodes about a “toolkit” for public assistance. I’m not really sure what the point of the study is but it does bring some good, if small examples of improvements to these areas like the placemaking at Old Cedar/OSR, the old dry cleaner’s at Nicollet and 98th, and Gyropolis at 90th and Penn. There is also the pizza place coming to the vacant building in Countryside Center.

https://letstalk.bloomingtonmn.gov/comm ... es-toolkit


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[Mdcastle]

I personally really hate the aesthetics, but my opinion on that aside, yeah, the south side of Penn American is doing well.

Point is the cities vision was to mirror that on the north side and to date the net result has been a couple of decaying buildings cleared and a big box retail- Dicks- moving in from across the street. Then it took 20 years and city money to replace a single dilapidated gas station, and the comment about Cedar and OSR reminded me there was another redevelopment project specific to that area that went nowhere. I just don't think the city's apparent vision to have every commercial area in the city look like the south side of Penn American is even remotely acheivable, or in my personal opinion, desirable.

[wingedmolotov]

My impression of the commercial nodes project is more of making them look nicer and more like a corner you’d see in Minneapolis- more activated street frontage, nice facades, smaller apartments.


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[Mdcastle]

Seems like half the city is "I want Bloomington to be just like Minneapolis" and half the city is like "If I wanted to live in Minneapolis I would have bought a house in Minneapolis". Right now they city council seems to have definate ambitions to the former but is restrained by market realities and avoiding doing anything to really create a cause for the latter to rally behind. That's how they Valley View Community Center got sunk. I don't think this is changing since I've been hearing it as long as I've been around, as older residents die off the ones that have had a chance to be established for decades replace them.

[Mdcastle]

Whatever the case it looks like they're moving forward with the one-sided shared use plan option. From the latest city council meeting

The shared-use path was most favored by Bloomington residents, nearby property owners, and frequent drivers.
o Most noted property impacts and costs as reasons for their preference.
o Concerns about potentials speeds of cyclist and e-bike users on the shared-use path.
o Other comments involved clarifying maintenance responsibilities, a need for lighting and support for additional tree plantings.

[Mdcastle]

List of upcoming City Managed Projects from the last planning commission meeting

• ST-12-004 84th Street Pedestrian Bridge Replacement (2026) $ 2,860,000
• ST-20-006 Nicollet Avenue Reconstruction (2026-2030) 37,608,000
• ST-24-006 494 Proj – 82nd St. Bridge & 35W Grade Mod (2027) 1,000,000
• ST-24-021 Old Shakopee Road (CSAH1) at 98th Street (2027-2028) 5,500,000
• ST-17-003 Old Shakopee Rd & Old Cedar Av Intersection (2027-2029) 5,221,000
• ST-26-001 Old Shakopee Rd (CSAH1) – Aldrich Ave to 2nd Ave (2027-2029) 26,200,000
• ST-16-009 CP Rail Regional Trail (2028) 3,223,000
• ST-15-006 Xerxes Avenue Corridor Bikeway (2029) 1,699,500
• ST-19-009 Penn Avenue NB to American Blvd WB Left Turn Lane (2030) 3,360,000
• ST-24-010 Chicago Ave Pedestrian Improvements (2030) 1,257,500
• ST-24-009 102nd Street France to Normandale (2031) 3,377,500
• ST-24-011 82nd Street Roadway and Pedestrian Improvement (2031) 1,750,000
• ST-24-004 American Blvd Culvert Replacement (2031-2032) 1,152,000
• ST-19-013 Pedestrian Bridge Over Normandale Blvd at 84th St. (2032) 6,200,000
• ST-15-005 Portland Avenue Corridor Bikeway (2033) 4,957,700
• ST-18-003 Nine Mile Creek Regional Trail (2033) 1,496,000
• ST-24-012 12th Ave. Pedestrian Enhancements (2035) 3,290,000
• ST-24-013 84th Street Normandale to France (2035) 4,097,500
• ST-25-004 98th St. @ 35W Interchange Reconfiguration Proj. (2026-2028) 4,744,000
• ST-13-001 Signal & Traffic Management Improvements (ongoing) 4,090,300
• ST-99-009 Subdivision Streets (undesignated) (ongoing) 1,000,000

[DanPatchToget]

Whatever the case it looks like they're moving forward with the one-sided shared use plan option. From the latest city council meeting

The shared-use path was most favored by Bloomington residents, nearby property owners, and frequent drivers.
o Most noted property impacts and costs as reasons for their preference.
o Concerns about potentials speeds of cyclist and e-bike users on the shared-use path.
o Other comments involved clarifying maintenance responsibilities, a need for lighting and support for additional tree plantings.

Well that's pretty foolish of the city, but not the first and won't be the last foolish thing they do where they think they're improving things for bikers when in reality they're making it worse.

At least that area has a pretty well-connected grid layout, so I'd rather just bike on side streets than dealing with the constant stop & go on a trail.

[wingedmolotov]

Whatever the case it looks like they're moving forward with the one-sided shared use plan option. From the latest city council meeting

The shared-use path was most favored by Bloomington residents, nearby property owners, and frequent drivers.
o Most noted property impacts and costs as reasons for their preference.
o Concerns about potentials speeds of cyclist and e-bike users on the shared-use path.
o Other comments involved clarifying maintenance responsibilities, a need for lighting and support for additional tree plantings.

What a lukewarm, car-centric design. $26.4 million of city dollars are being used for this? The shared use path, weak traffic calming (35 MPH design speed), and reduction in crosswalks are absolutely shameful.

ETA: And casting the east side into a familiar pattern of auto-centricity- this on Nicollet, concrete pans for bike lanes when Portland gets rebuilt, and why would Metro Transit want to extend an 18 BRT down this?


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[Mdcastle]

I'd reckon most of the bicyclists in the city will find the design making things vastly better rather than worse now that they don't have to ride on pavement with nothing but paint between them and cars, or on a bumpy sidewalk with no boulevard space. Bicyclists include kids and families as opposed to just strong and fearless adults.

Nicollet used to be mainly four lane undivided with a four lane divided with turn lanes section and sidewalks mainly inches away from a traffic lane. Are we now saying a three design with new protected off-road path and boulevard space is "car-centric".

[wingedmolotov]

An improvement is a given because it’s a reconstruction. The amount of improvement is subject to the decisionmakers. This particular design is decreasing the separation between bikes and peds. This isn’t, say, France or Normandale, where it’s worth crossing to one particular side for less crossings.


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[Mdcastle]

Right now most bicyclists understandbly seem to ride on the sidewalks so I'm not sure how wider sidwalks and a full MUP are 'decreasing seperation".

[wingedmolotov]

The “strong and fearless” types can use the painted lane, while slower riders can choose between that and the sidewalk. With the MUP everyone will have to share 10 feet.


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[Mdcastle]

So a smooth, wide MUP seperated by cars by trees and boulevard space isn't a gigantic improvement over a narrow, bumpy sidewalk right next to the street for slower riders?