Uber/Lyft

[uptownbro]

And it’s going swimmingly for them …
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/crowd- ... 0the%20U.S.

[EOst]

I took the self-driving Waymo taxis a bunch of times when I was in Phoenix, and I genuinely loved every minute.

[tedlanda2571]

I personally don't like blackmail - so Uber and Lyft's threats and tantrums make me strongly support the ordinance. If they leave, that's a plus at this point. There will be other services/companies that can do what they do without fucking over their workers.

Blackmail. I do not think it means what you think it means.

[BigIdeasGuy]

If you consider being told what the negative consequences of an action will be to be blackmail then sure I guess it's blackmail but then you also can't be mad at what the consequences are when they happen. I have no idea why people think Uber/Lyft are bluffing, MSP isn't a special market and if it's going to be a massive pain or unprofitable to run it they will leave without hesitation. Which hurts a lot of people starting with the drivers

The idea of state run ride share service is absolutely asinine and hopefully it's forgotten soon, alexschief laid out all the reasons it shouldn't happen perfectly. I'm guessing there will be some new capitol that comes in and tries to fill the space left by U/L who knows what that exactly looks like but it will suck for pretty much everyone until something stands out.

[thespeedmccool]

Some alternative rideshare companies have already said they're investigating coming to MN.

We really shouldn't back down. We shouldn't let capital bully us into backing off our minimum wages. We shouldn't acquiesce to Wall Street's attempt to punish a progressive city whose only crime was to be so bold as to demand its workers are paid a minimum wage.

(That said, my understanding is that MPLS City Council's rates are on average more than minimum wage but I'm not sitting with them in front of me so IDK. The math on these is more complicated than it seems at first.)

[DanPatchToget]

I'd just like to point out Uber didn't make a profit until last year. Lyft hasn't made a profit yet.

[MNdible]

We really shouldn't back down. We shouldn't let capital bully us into backing off our minimum wages.

Except the rates set by the city council will, according to the state study, be well in excess of the Minneapolis minimum wage (after accounting for costs borne by the drivers).

[thespeedmccool]

We really shouldn't back down. We shouldn't let capital bully us into backing off our minimum wages.

Except the rates set by the city council will, according to the state study, be well in excess of the Minneapolis minimum wage (after accounting for costs borne by the drivers).

I think the thing to keep in mind is that these rates are set by miles driven and minutes spent driving, and not by hours worked plus expenses. So, it's guaranteed that if you set the rates such that on average driving Uber/Lyft pays a minimum wage (plus expenses), there will be, by definition, hours in which the drivers are not being paid minimum wage.

To my understanding, the state study takes an approach that we could achieve the minimum wage for drivers by ensuring the average rate earned by drivers is the Minneapolis minimum wage. However, such a rate by definition would mean that at least some drivers during some hours would earn less than the minimum wage. Thus, Minneapolis is taking a different approach by attempting to ensure that the minimum rate earned by drivers in an hour is the Minneapolis hourly minimum wage.

Setting the rates such that the average rate paid is equal to the minimum wage is going to result in lower rates than setting the rates such that the minimum hourly rates are above the minimum wage. That's the dispute in essence.

I favor Minneapolis's perspective but can see why there's an interesting debate here about how we should expect "contractors" to be paid vs. employees when discussing hourly average wages vs. hourly minimums. No one is comfortable paying a full-time employee less than a minimum wage for a given hour even if their average wages exceed the minimum wage; why shouldn't we feel the same way about drivers who (for all intents and purposes) drive for Uber or Lyft full-time? Because Uber and Lyft pretend they're not employees?

Like I said, an interesting debate, but I think Minneapolis's position is relatively easy to understand. The state study's perspective requires assuming that contracted labor need only be paid on average the minimum wage, which I think is something most people would disagree with.

[Korh]

I'm pretty sure both businesses model where a faulty blitzscaling attempt.
I know for a fact Uber abandoned it's driverless and air taxi development at the start at the pandemic and pivoted to scooters and food delivery to mixed success. And I don't think they have any plans to revive it since their business models is just skimming a percentage of the top and would require something that is the worst nightmare to these businesses from Uber, to we work, and the half dozen delivery apps, having physical assets they have to be responsible for.

[Multimodal]

Yep, that's pretty much it.

But even without drivers, it does nothing to reduce VMT, wear & tear on streets, congestion, etc.

Transit, biking, & walking are the future. Cars should have a much, much reduced role to play in transportation, even if they're EVs or autonomous or rideshare or whatever.

[MinneapBliss]

https://www.cbsnews.com/minnesota/news/ ... uber-lyft/

Curious if anyone has any experience using them?

[Anondson]

I had no idea some Uber/Lyft drivers were driving Hertz rentals, which Hertz is demanding be returned?

https://www.startribune.com/uber-lyft-m ... 600355511/

[mister.shoes]

A person renting a vehicle from a company for the purposes of taking other people to destinations in exchange for payment. I've heard of this before. What's it called again?

[Anondson]

I understand that this is the app for the co-op ride sharing service :

coop-rider.app.link/nhCldcELqIb

I don’t know if it is true, but apparently they need 10,000 Minnesotans to join by May for service to be started?

[mister.shoes]

Here’s their website: https://drivers.coop

Android and iOS links are at the bottom.