Public Transit News / Current Events (MN only)

[Bakken2016]

Metro Transit workers authorize strike:
https://kstp.com/kstp-news/local-news/r ... tion-vote/

Should we be concerned with this?

This is pretty common, the last negotiations they authorized a strike as well, but then the Council and ATU came to an agreement on the contract.

[Silophant]

Today is the last day for the Hawthorne Transportation Center. Greyhound, Jefferson Lines, Flixbus, and Land to Air will all be moving to Ramp B starting tomorrow.

[twincitizen]

I'd be curious if the Hawthorne Ramp could be torn down some day to be replaced by development that would help knit this area together a little better. But given that it was only built in 2000, probably with federal grants(?), that might complicate the issue. Lord knows there's no shortage of parking in the area with the A ramp right behind it. At the very least, it should be re-branded to "Hennepin Theater Trust Ramp".

[Silophant]

I wonder how much of the transportation use would have to be retained to prevent issues with federal grants. Leaving a little space open for a theoretical streetcar was apparently good enough for the Gateway block to be redeveloped, would a 100ish-stall public parking component of a redevelopment do the same for Hawthorne?

[Silophant]

Surprise (to me, at least) stop consolidation and TSP coming to the Minneapolis portion of the Rt. 10 in a couple weeks. Looks like it will generally drop stop spacing down to every other block in the areas that currently have a stop every single block.

[thespeedmccool]

Surprise (to me, at least) stop consolidation and TSP coming to the Minneapolis portion of the Rt. 10 in a couple weeks. Looks like it will generally drop stop spacing down to every other block in the areas that currently have a stop every single block.

Is this part of the Better Bus Route program?

I always thought the BBR program could go faster than 1-2 routes every year. Maybe this is the program accelerating in light of reduced resources for Metro Transit.

[Tcmetro]

TSP was installed quite a while ago on Central Ave, but it seems that it was turned off at some point.

These stop cuts are long overdue. 4th, 6th, 18th, and 19th are all maybe 300 feet or so from the adjacent stop. 28th, 30th, and 34th don't have a paired SB stop, and 36th is adjacent to the railroad line.

[Bakken2016]

Surprise (to me, at least) stop consolidation and TSP coming to the Minneapolis portion of the Rt. 10 in a couple weeks. Looks like it will generally drop stop spacing down to every other block in the areas that currently have a stop every single block.

Is this part of the Better Bus Route program?

I always thought the BBR program could go faster than 1-2 routes every year. Maybe this is the program accelerating in light of reduced resources for Metro Transit.

It's not BBR, it's more of a prepare for F Line.

[twincitizen]

Having worked at Metro Transit for a couple years a decade ago and being close to some folks in Service Development, I can't help but notice the stop consolidation and better bus route stuff is coinciding with several recent retirements of an old guard of route planners, and subsequent rise in the ranks of folks that have now been there for a decade plus. We were pushing for stop consolidation back in 2011-12 and now it's finally happening, route by route. Nothing against that old guard - I have the utmost respect for those guys and wish them a happy retirement. They basically created the bus system as we know it over their 40+ years at MTC and were very protective about making changes. And they weren't alone in pushing back on stop consolidation - the Street Operations division also opposed stop consolidation as they were tasked with communicating those changes and dealing with complaints. I'm guessing the public interaction aspect of stop consolidation (mostly dealing with folks upset about having to walk further) has largely been shifted to a more robust and better-equipped community outreach division.

[Silophant]

TSP was installed quite a while ago on Central Ave, but it seems that it was turned off at some point.

These stop cuts are long overdue. 4th, 6th, 18th, and 19th are all maybe 300 feet or so from the adjacent stop. 28th, 30th, and 34th don't have a paired SB stop, and 36th is adjacent to the railroad line.

Yeah, I saw the "bringing back signal priority" line and was curious about what led to it being turned off. COVID-related somehow?

[DanPatchToget]

Having worked at Metro Transit for a couple years a decade ago and being close to some folks in Service Development, I can't help but notice the stop consolidation and better bus route stuff is coinciding with several recent retirements of an old guard of route planners, and subsequent rise in the ranks of folks that have now been there for a decade plus. We were pushing for stop consolidation back in 2011-12 and now it's finally happening, route by route. Nothing against that old guard - I have the utmost respect for those guys and wish them a happy retirement. But they basically created the bus system as we know it over their 40+ years at MTC and were very protective about making changes. And they weren't alone in pushing back on stop consolidation - the Street Operations division also opposed stop consolidation as they were tasked with communicating those changes and dealing with complaints. I'm guessing the public interaction aspect of stop consolidation (mostly dealing with folks upset about having to walk further) has largely been shifted to a more robust and better-equipped community outreach division.

Do you happen to know if this "old guard" opposed arterial BRT? I don't know when the concept of ABRT first came about, but I probably first heard of it in 2014 when the A Line was in planning, and looking back I wonder why we didn't make those upgrades earlier (15-30 years ago) since we already knew which bus routes had the most ridership.

[Tcmetro]

Having worked at Metro Transit for a couple years a decade ago and being close to some folks in Service Development, I can't help but notice the stop consolidation and better bus route stuff is coinciding with several recent retirements of an old guard of route planners, and subsequent rise in the ranks of folks that have now been there for a decade plus. We were pushing for stop consolidation back in 2011-12 and now it's finally happening, route by route. Nothing against that old guard - I have the utmost respect for those guys and wish them a happy retirement. But they basically created the bus system as we know it over their 40+ years at MTC and were very protective about making changes. And they weren't alone in pushing back on stop consolidation - the Street Operations division also opposed stop consolidation as they were tasked with communicating those changes and dealing with complaints. I'm guessing the public interaction aspect of stop consolidation (mostly dealing with folks upset about having to walk further) has largely been shifted to a more robust and better-equipped community outreach division.

Do you happen to know if this "old guard" opposed arterial BRT? I don't know when the concept of ABRT first came about, but I probably first heard of it in 2014 when the A Line was in planning, and looking back I wonder why we didn't make those upgrades earlier (15-30 years ago) since we already knew which bus routes had the most ridership.

The bus system was an absolute mess 15-30 years ago. Most routes had 10 or 15 lettered branches, not to mention various unlettered deviations to industrial parks, office buildings, or senior residences. From roughly 1997 to 2007, a massive restructuring of the bus network was conducted which also resulted in the elimination of duplicate numbered lines in Minneapolis and St. Paul.

Secondly, there's been a big shift in the way that transit planning works and the funding available for buses from the federal government in the United States. Planners like Jarrett Walker pushed the idea of simple bus routes with consistant service throughout the day in the late 2000s and 2010s. The FTA opened up capital money for BRT projects that adopt those principles along with heavy marketing and branding. Something like the METRO Arterial BRT program was basically unthinkable pretty much anywhere in the US in 1995 or 2000.

[thespeedmccool]

Since we're talking about it, here's the earliest PDF of the system map I've been able to find on the Wayback Machine in about ~5 minutes of looking. There are older maps available, but largely as ugly image files. If you're interested, you can explore the system as it was in 1998 through this clunky early web interface.

It's astonishing how much capacity we've lost in 25 years.

[Bakken2016]

Having worked at Metro Transit for a couple years a decade ago and being close to some folks in Service Development, I can't help but notice the stop consolidation and better bus route stuff is coinciding with several recent retirements of an old guard of route planners, and subsequent rise in the ranks of folks that have now been there for a decade plus. We were pushing for stop consolidation back in 2011-12 and now it's finally happening, route by route. Nothing against that old guard - I have the utmost respect for those guys and wish them a happy retirement. But they basically created the bus system as we know it over their 40+ years at MTC and were very protective about making changes. And they weren't alone in pushing back on stop consolidation - the Street Operations division also opposed stop consolidation as they were tasked with communicating those changes and dealing with complaints. I'm guessing the public interaction aspect of stop consolidation (mostly dealing with folks upset about having to walk further) has largely been shifted to a more robust and better-equipped community outreach division.

Do you happen to know if this "old guard" opposed arterial BRT? I don't know when the concept of ABRT first came about, but I probably first heard of it in 2014 when the A Line was in planning, and looking back I wonder why we didn't make those upgrades earlier (15-30 years ago) since we already knew which bus routes had the most ridership.

Yes, at least one of them did. They think it’s a disservice that we are cutting back local service in favor of BRT.


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[Silophant]

Special Northstar trains will be running for the Twins playoff games this week. Seems like a good sign that they're able to do last-minute special service like this again.

[daveybabymsp]

https://www.metrotransit.org/performance

Metro transit ridership data has been released for August. Slight increase in ridership over July, with most services modestly increasing in ridership. Noticeable jump in riders on the Orange and A lines, noticeable drop in riders on the D line. Overall a positive trend but nothing particularly exciting.


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[Bakken2016]

https://www.metrotransit.org/performance

Metro transit ridership data has been released for August. Slight increase in ridership over July, with most services modestly increasing in ridership. Noticeable jump in riders on the Orange and A lines, noticeable drop in riders on the D line. Overall a positive trend but nothing particularly exciting.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Orange and A lines can probably be because of increased service on both lines in August. As well as A Line getting State Fair ridership.

[thespeedmccool]

Anyone have any intuition on why D Line ridership dropped? I mean, it's probably just a monthly random data blip, but I'm curious if there's a reason.

[StandishGuy]

Hmmm. The ridership numbers remain pretty low compared to pre-Pandemic numbers. There are still fewer than 350 daily riders on Norhtstar, and the Green Line ridership is around half the numbers seen in 2019. The C and D Lines on the other hand are really doing well with the D having a few months with 12,000 daily rides. The Orange Line hasn't yet passed 2,000 average ridership, which is disappointing when projections had it pegged closer to 8,000. Does anyone know how to get data on specific Route numbers for the "regular" bus?

I expect the B Line ABRT route to really do well when it starts up in 2024 or 2025.

[J. Mc]

Does anyone know how to get data on specific Route numbers for the "regular" bus?

I expect the B Line ABRT route to really do well when it starts up in 2024 or 2025.

There is or was a way to look up very detailed info on individual routes, even stops IIRC. If someone can explain that again I'd like to know as well. The link was posted and referenced a few years back I think.

Meanwhile, 2023 ridership report covering January to August is on the next Transportation Committee agenda. There is a graph in there showing the top 8 bus routes by average weekday ridership for 2023.
https://metrocouncil.org/Council-Meetin ... rship.aspx