Public Transit News / Current Events (MN only)

[daveybabymsp]

Bummed that after the B and the E line are opened this year, they are on planning for 6 new lines in the next 10 years. I get that they can only plan so many routes at a time, but I wish they could throw more resources at the program and do closer to 10 new lines in 10 years since the current lines have been such a success on pretty much every metric

[COLSLAW5]

I think the hard part is that cities and counties are wanting to line up whole road reconstruction efforts so that creates rigid timeline to follow those projects.

Also interesting to see that they are starting a process to review existing lines for potential updates

[BigIdeasGuy]

From the outside when it comes to transit planning the time spent talking & planning vs the time spent doing seems way off. For what largely amounts to an upgraded bus route how in the world does it take 5 years to figure that out? I get that funding isn't always available but how does it take multiple years to figure out where a modular improved bus stop is goes?

[UrbanMPLS]

Completely agree. I’m sure a planner could give me a bunch of reasons why this isn’t the case, but once the corridor has been selected, I feel like planning these routes should take maybe six months. And that’s including community engagement.

[COLSLAW5]

Unfortunately it really comes down to the fact that these projects tend to cross several cities and county infrastructure. Because of that the coordination on funding and planning is frustratingly complex. I agree that we should be shortening public comment periods but when you need to get approvals from committees that only meet once a month timelines stretch fast.

[DanPatchToget]

I'd like to know if it's feasible to do a quick rollout of an ABRT route and build the permanent infrastructure at a later date. For example the C Line stations along Olson Memorial Highway are just a regular bus shelter with a tiny real-time bus arrival display board. As for the ticket/Go-To card machines, I saw a couple at a park & ride in Shakopee that are portable and you just plug into an outlet, so I wonder if something like those could be used. Anything to bring these improvements quicker assuming the buses and drivers are already available. I know it isn't as good as a fully built ABRT service, but would the public care if they have to wait for real ABRT platforms but still get the higher frequency, slightly faster service, and simplified route right away?

[COLSLAW5]

You sorta described the better bus routes program which honestly could also be sped up. I think an understated upgrade that ABRT brings for faster service is Transit Signal Priority. To do that you have to upgrade signals along the route which are controlled by the city or county. Also there is a fiber optic line the entire length of the route to help with that.

I am not trying to be a debbie downer but just trying to point out that a lot of these projects are doing more the fancy shelters and buses. As we get better at these the cities are opening up to using them as opportunities to improve the pedestrian environment around the stations which make these lines even more usable.

[thespeedmccool]

I love the idea of speeding these up (which probably just requires smoothing out coordination and lining up funding more quickly,) but I don't think I like implementing "temporary" aBRT facilities to upgrade them later. aBRT is already a diluted mode for mass transit, and I'm hesitant to dilute it further.

There's a general kind of anti-transit argument that goes something like "We don't need [high-cost infrastructure], we just need [lower-cost infrastructure]." You see this with the groups who think Robbinsdale doesn't need LRT, just highway BRT. You see it with some of the anti-transit folks around E Line stations in Edina that said they didn't need those big aBRT stations because a simple shelter would be enough.

I understand the instinct to go faster, but I don't want to sacrifice an opportunity to line up all the relevant actors for a higher quality version of a project. I know the suggestion for quicker rollout wasn't made with the above-mentioned anti-transit thoughts in mind, but I think we shouldn't accept less when we have a window to do more.

[angrysuburbanite]

Yeah, I kinda agree with that. If there's an opportunity to plan a route in coordination with a street reconstruction it's probably worth it to integrate it better with the streetscape. I'd rather it take longer to get a better final product than shorter for something lackluster.

[BigIdeasGuy]

I think there is a big difference in postponing a project for a few years to better line up with other planned construction work. To me that's a valid reason to delay an upgrade. On the other hand delaying a project for years because of engagement and process because engagement and process makes us feel good doesn't come near to being a valid reason.

I would also point out there is a vocal group of urbanist that you can can count on ripping on bold, risky ideas in favor of more, small, cheaper projects and marginal improvement. I think that approach can be the right one at times but it's also shutdown down dreaming, unless of course it's their perfect dream.

[DanPatchToget]

I forget which thread, but I remember recently there was discussion about American Boulevard and Bloomington doing a study for transit improvements along it. Here's the project website: https://letstalk.bloomingtonmn.gov/am_b ... source=ehq

To be honest, I hope nothing is done in the near-term besides some bus improvements (and I can always hope the powers that be come to their senses and allow the 540 or 542 to go deep into Eden Prairie) and trying to upzone land along American Boulevard. Without a radical change to land use though, I don't see American Boulevard ever being a corridor built more for people in mind than cars.

[Bakken2016]

I forget which thread, but I remember recently there was discussion about American Boulevard and Bloomington doing a study for transit improvements along it. Here's the project website: https://letstalk.bloomingtonmn.gov/am_b ... source=ehq

To be honest, I hope nothing is done in the near-term besides some bus improvements (and I can always hope the powers that be come to their senses and allow the 540 or 542 to go deep into Eden Prairie) and trying to upzone land along American Boulevard. Without a radical change to land use though, I don't see American Boulevard ever being a corridor built more for people in mind than cars.

Southwest Transit just announced their I-494/American Blvd service today. Starting March 31st.

https://swtransit.org/news-media-press- ... NSYb7AUHPQ


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[angrysuburbanite]

Wish there was a schedule or map.

Glad it's 7 days a week, but it looks like they are using repurposed prime minibuses rather than normal transit buses which is kind of disappointing (take a look at the contest page). 45 to 60 minute headways is better than I was expecting to be honest, but I fail to see how this is better than extending a Metro Transit route.

[DanPatchToget]

Let's see if it can last longer than their other local route experiments.

Depending on the routing, I like the idea of an express option, but for local service I'd rather it just be an extension of the 540 and/or 542 since those have 30-minute frequency.

[Tcmetro]

It's good in the sense that Metro Transit doesn't have to pay for it! I hope that it works out well for SWT.

I would hope that a road diet is considered for American Blvd as well as reconnecting it to the grid to the south. Right now the layout is not conducive to transit riders.

[Wezle]

American Blvd may be one of the most overbuilt roads in the "Urban" designated suburbs. I've said it in another thread, but there's little chance of making it an area that feels conducive to transit ridership when you need to cross an astonishing 19 lanes of traffic on foot to get to the opposite corner of intersections like Lyndale and 24th.

[Tom H.]

Wish there was a schedule or map.

Glad it's 7 days a week, but it looks like they are using repurposed prime minibuses rather than normal transit buses which is kind of disappointing (take a look at the contest page). 45 to 60 minute headways is better than I was expecting to be honest, but I fail to see how this is better than extending a Metro Transit route.

I think there is some marginal benefit to using the SWT "brand" instead of MetroTransit. There are some folks in EP who will ride SWT because they view it as a "premium" service, who would not feel the same about MT, even if everything about the service were identical. It may not be a huge number of people, but it's also not zero.

[J. Mc]

Let's see if it can last longer than their other local route experiments.

Agreed. At least with this attempt it is effectively replacing the existing PRIME 494 service to MOA/MSP, both of which seem to get a good amount of demand based on observations. I'd assume at SWS they'll continue local PRIME rides and then connect onto this service. That would address the 'last mile' issue other route attempts may have been hindered by.

Glad it's 7 days a week, but it looks like they are using repurposed prime minibuses rather than normal transit buses which is kind of disappointing (take a look at the contest page).

The contest only mentions wrapping two units, but I think the service will need more that two units, so perhaps a motorcoach or the remaining Gillig 30' 'Trolley' may be operated on select service blocks as well. (I can't recall if the other trolley they sent to Duluth is on loan or if it was permanently transferred/sold.)

[angrysuburbanite]

I think there is some marginal benefit to using the SWT "brand" instead of MetroTransit. There are some folks in EP who will ride SWT because they view it as a "premium" service, who would not feel the same about MT, even if everything about the service were identical. It may not be a huge number of people, but it's also not zero.

I mean, I wish you weren't right but I think you're right here.

The contest only mentions wrapping two units, but I think the service will need more that two units, so perhaps a motorcoach or the remaining Gillig 30' 'Trolley' may be operated on select service blocks as well. (I can't recall if the other trolley they sent to Duluth is on loan or if it was permanently transferred/sold.)

I went looking through the previous SWT commission meetings and it looks like they actually approved a contract to wrap 15 vehicles. I agree with you that there will probably be a mix of their fleet, I just can't see many Eden Prairie residents opting to take a minibus over their own personal vehicle but maybe I'm just overthinking it.

[Bakken2016]

I think there is some marginal benefit to using the SWT "brand" instead of MetroTransit. There are some folks in EP who will ride SWT because they view it as a "premium" service, who would not feel the same about MT, even if everything about the service were identical. It may not be a huge number of people, but it's also not zero.

I mean, I wish you weren't right but I think you're right here.

The contest only mentions wrapping two units, but I think the service will need more that two units, so perhaps a motorcoach or the remaining Gillig 30' 'Trolley' may be operated on select service blocks as well. (I can't recall if the other trolley they sent to Duluth is on loan or if it was permanently transferred/sold.)

I went looking through the previous SWT commission meetings and it looks like they actually approved a contract to wrap 15 vehicles. I agree with you that there will probably be a mix of their fleet, I just can't see many Eden Prairie residents opting to take a minibus over their own personal vehicle but maybe I'm just overthinking it.

Pretty sure it won't be motorcoach buses, it is serving the Mall of America Transit Center. Motorcoaches won't fit in there I believe.